Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may include typos.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dollar Sprout Podcast, where it’s all about building a business that offers consistent income and flexibility so you can live life on your terms. And now your host, Megan Robinson.

[00:00:18] Megan: Hey there. Welcome back to the Dollar Sprout podcast. This is the final episode of season two, and I’m gonna wrap up this season by giving you a little bit of an update on my business. I think this is the third business update I’ve done. So if you wanna go back and listen to the others, there’s one at the end of Season one and one at the beginning of this season, season two.

[00:00:47] So today I’m gonna share about my business in three parts. I’m gonna share about the past, present, and future of my business. So for the past, I’m just gonna share a short review of what’s happened with my business since January, 2022 through now we’re in, you know, mid May 20, 23. Um, then I’ll share with you the current state of my business, including revenue and revenue projections, what I’m selling and what my day-to-day looks like in my business right now.

[00:01:21] And I’ll wrap up by telling you about the future of my business, including lessons that I’ve learned, um, since taking my business full-time. Many lessons coming from, uh, the. Guests that we’ve had on this podcast, uh, all of our amazing guests have taught me something about business, and I’ll also tell you what my plans are for the rest of the year and what I want to change and do differently in my business.

[00:01:49] So starting with the past. If you don’t already know, I’ve had my business L l C since 2017. I started out with personal finance. Um, I studied personal finance in college, so it really was just a personal finance website or blog, which turned into financial coaching and freelancing. Then in December, 2021, I decided that I wanted, wanted to change my business entirely, so I went from financial coaching to business operations.

[00:02:23] I found a certification program, signed up in January, 2022, and became a certified online business manager. Through the International Association of Online Business Managers, and I got that certification in like May or June of 2022 is when I graduated from that program. At that point, I had zero clients in my business and zero zero revenue mainly because I had always kept my freelance work separate from my L L C.

[00:02:58] So all I ever did under my L L C was financial coaching and my personal finance website revenue. And at that point I had. You know, ended my engagements with all personal finance or financial coaching clients, and I was doing freelance work and I also had a part-time job doing business operations for a small company.

[00:03:22] So in July, 2022, I moved my freelance work and my part-time employer under my L L C. Then I got one more client, which gave me three clients in total and barely enough revenue to take my business full-time. Um, so just a little sidebar there in case you’re wondering, uh, more detail about where those clients came from.

[00:03:49] One of them was Dollar Sprout. That was the one that I was doing project work for in freelance work. Um, I’ve talked about this before, but I met Ben and Jeff, who are the co-founders of Dollar Sprout back in like 2017 or 2018. I found them online, realized that they lived near me and asked them to meet me for coffee.

[00:04:10] That turned into me freelancing for them, which eventually turned into a full-time job, which then turned back into me freelancing for them later on. Then, like I said, the other client was a small business that I was working for part-time, and I just asked them if they would mind moving to a retainer agreement, or, I’m sorry, moving to a, a contractor arrangement through my business.

[00:04:33] Um, Which they were happy to do. And the third client found me through a direct directory that I’m listed in because of the certification program that I had just taken. So that program, once you graduate, you get listed in a directory and business owners just come to that directory looking to find an online business manager, an om and um, you can put your information in there and they can reach out to you.

[00:04:59] So that’s how I found that third client. Uh, in the episode we did an episode with Kelly Jamieson in this season, season two, I think it was episode six, and she talked about how she built a successful online business without a website or social media. And my business really is an example of that as well.

[00:05:22] Um, so far none of my clients have come through social media, so definitely go check out that episode with Keldi. Um, And if part of what’s holding you back from starting a business is that you don’t wanna deal with the tech of setting up a website or you don’t want to have to post on social media, that conversation with Keldi will bust right through the narrative that those are things that you have to do to have a successful business.

[00:05:52] Okay. Back to business updates. That brings us to August. So from August to December, I had one retainer client who was my former part-time employer. And I did one off projects for two different clients. I did several projects for two clients, both of which found me through the directory that I was listed on from my certification program.

[00:06:18] Um, sidebar, just for anyone who doesn’t know or needs a refresher, a retainer client is someone who pays a set amount of money per month, usually for a specific number of hours or very specific deliverables like. Right now, one of my clients pays me the same amount of money every month for 65 hours of my time per month.

[00:06:43] So the project-based work wasn’t very consistent. Um, some months I would make $1,500 from a project, and then other months would be $0. And in December, I think I got paid up front for half of the rate of a project that was scheduled to take three to four months. So that was $2,500 upfront and $2,500 again at the completion of the project.

[00:07:11] On average, I think I was making about 5,000 to $5,500 a month in total revenue. That was enough to cover my salary and payroll taxes and the software that I use, um, mainly QuickBooks for Accounting. I used zao for my CRM and Convert Kit for email marketing and a few other pieces of software, but, I definitely did not have a lot of money left over from month to month.

[00:07:43] I also did some other discovery calls during that period of time, um, from like August through December. I think I did three, all of which found me through the, um, directory that I was listed in, and I ended up not getting any of those roles that I did discovery calls with. And then in October or November of 2022, I signed up for a coaching program.

[00:08:13] Even though I said I wasn’t going to sign up for any more co courses or coaching for the rest of the year, I did and I regret that one so much. It was like, I’m almost embarrassed to say this. It was, it was $10,000 upfront and an additional thousand dollars per month after that. And like I said, I didn’t have a lot of money left over in my business month to month.

[00:08:40] So I paid for it using some of the savings that I had from my freelancing. Um, cuz I just saved up a lot of my freelancing money. And, um, yeah, I, I ended up canceling my membership to that coaching program like four months later. So. Anyway, that pre, that pretty much brings us to 2023. Um, if you wanna hear the details about 2022, I cover a lot of that in the last business update where I gave an update on the seven things I decided to do differently in my business the second time around.

[00:09:15] So switching from financial coaching to business operations, and in the last update, I left off by telling you my two goals for 2023. My first goal was to reach six figures from retainer client work alone, and my second goal was to launch a digital product and get my first 10 sales. So let’s talk about how those goals are going.

[00:09:44] It’s currently May 14th, 2023. We’re a little over a third of the way through the year, about to start week 20 of the year. Um, I said I would update you on my revenue and my revenue projections, what I’m currently selling, and what the day-to-day of my business looks like. So let’s start with what I’m currently selling.

[00:10:08] I’m wrapping up the last of my project work for non retainer clients, and for the time being, I plan to only work with clients on retainer. Um, that means no v i p days, no system setups or anything like that. I’ll just be working with two to three clients, all paying me a set amount per month for a set number of hours or specific deliverables.

[00:10:34] And I do still want to launch a digital product this year, but the reason I am focusing on retainers for now is twofold, right? The first reason is that the financial stability is really nice. Um, having retainer clients provides consistent revenue, and given that I jumped full-time into my business, Probably before it was smart to do so.

[00:11:03] Um, it’s nice to have the consistency and to know that I can pay myself my full salary, which really isn’t that much right now. Um, and that I’m building some savings in the business. And the second reason is that it allows me to get experience in a bunch of different areas of each business that I work with, because depending on the client, I do everything from.

[00:11:26] Working with the CEO to create the business’ vision and goals, managing projects, setting up backend systems in the business, managing the team, hiring, creating documentation, and a lot more. So this experience is good research for me to figure out what kinds of digital products I might be able to create later on.

[00:11:53] In episode eight this season, Whitney Hansen talked about switching her business model to do what’s not scalable. So I definitely took a page from Whitney’s playbook on this one. Um, eventually I would like to have more scalable options and business offerings. And I’ll talk about that in the future part of this episode.

[00:12:17] But for now, I’m taking the less scalable route and just focusing on serving two or three great reti retainer clients and serving them really, really well. Um, so that’s it for what I’m selling now, for the part that I’m sure you’re curious about, which is the numbers. So as of today, I have made almost exactly $40,000 in revenue in my business this year.

[00:12:48] Um, now that’s revenue not profit, so that’s all the money my business has earned before expenses like my salary, software, subscriptions, taxes, all of that. So after expenses, my current profit is about $10,000, and my current retainer revenue is about $9,925 a month. So if I only maintain my current retainer clients for the rest of the year, then I am projected to make about $110,000 in revenue.

[00:13:27] In 2023, and since most of my revenue so far in, in the year has been retainer clients that I think that would end up putting me at like 105,000, uh, in revenue from just retainer clients this year. Now that’s if I continue on the current trajectory that I’m on with my retainer clients. If they don’t drop me for any reason or if I don’t have to drop any of that work for any reason, and again, that’s only revenue, that’s not profit.

[00:14:00] And trust me when I say that it is. Hard earned revenue too. Um, I don’t wanna give off this false impression that it’s been easy for me to get to this point because I do work hard and I work what feels like a lot to me. Um, and yeah, I just, I think that you see so much online about having your own business being like you only work.

[00:14:27] 30 hours a month or whatever, you know, and that is definitely not the case for me. I have a lot of friends, and I’ll get to this in a second, but I have a lot of friends and people that I’ve spoken to that have full-time jobs and definitely work fewer, at least productive hours, quote unquote, which brings me to my day to day, right?

[00:14:51] So, I’m always curious how much people work, whether they have a full-time job or they run their own business. And I ask my friends and people just like random people this all the time. I always ask people, how many hours a day do you think you’re actually productive at work? How many hours a day or how many hours a week do you think you’re really, truly productive?

[00:15:15] And so many of them say like three or four. Maybe five or six hours a day on a really, really productive day. But most people tell me they, they think they’re productive like three to four hours a day, not counting meetings. Right. And it’s different for every job I know that I know. Um, I come from a family of, you know, nurses, police of police officers, um, all kinds of blue collar workers.

[00:15:45] Uh, and I know that like those jobs can often be different. But, um, I don’t think most people who work in an office setting are really productive for even close to eight hours on most days. So the way my retainers are set up right now, I work about 30 hours a week for. My retainer clients, um, plus another five to 10 hours a week for non retainer client projects, which as I said, I am wrapping up with the last of those this month.

[00:16:24] So that’s about six hours a day, and I only log time when I’m actually working. Like if I get up to grab something or get a snack, um, then I turn off my timer. And depending on the industry you’re in, that might not sound like a lot. Like I said, I know that there are plenty of people, gosh, teachers, all kinds of people out there who are overworked and who would probably look at this and be like, huh, that’s laughable.

[00:16:51] You work six hours of productive work a day. Um, and I’m not complaining, right. I’ve been doing coffee chats with people who are interested in becoming OBMs. Um, or, you know, taking the program that I took and when I tell them about my business, a lot of them are like, wow, that sounds amazing. I’d love to work 30 hours a week and have control over my own schedule.

[00:17:16] Um, and that’s totally valid, and I’ll say that to me. My business right now feels very much like a regular, full-time job. Um, only instead of having one boss, I have like two or three bosses because all of my clients are my boss. Um, so I’m still sitting down at my computer for like a minimum of eight hours a day, often closer to like 12 hours a day.

[00:17:45] And on top of the 30 hours I spend working for clients a week, I also have to do, and yeah, that’s roughly 30 hours sometimes, you know, 35 hours or 40 hours doing client work. Um, I also have to do work in my own business, so I do my own bookkeeping and admin work, like sending invoices and contracts. Right now I’m taking a course on marketing and digital product design.

[00:18:13] I’m researching ideas for digital products, so that’s on top of, you know, what I would do for clients. So altogether I end up working like 30 to 40 hours a week for clients most weeks, and then an additional 5, 10, 15 hours a week. Um, For my own business, D depending on the week and depending on what needs to be done that week.

[00:18:40] Right? And that is, all of that is like productive time. Like I said, that is all like using my brain or producing work that’s not just like sitting in my home office scrolling on TikTok, cuz I don’t log those hours. Right? So, I don’t know about you, but I usually can’t sit down and crank out seven to nine hours of work at a time.

[00:19:07] Sometimes I can, but usually not. So my actual day-to-day varies depending on the client and the meetings that I have that day. Some days I have six to seven hours of client meetings in a row, and on those days my workday usually ends around 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM because after that many meetings, my brain is pretty fire, Fri fried, woo, I can’t even talk.

[00:19:30] Um, but on days when I have like. One client meeting in the morning, and that’s it. I’ll usually work off and on throughout the day, so I’m really bad at sticking to a routine. Um, so I might work from like 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM and then take a break from one to three, then work again from three to seven, then take a break, and then work again from nine to 11, right?

[00:19:56] So that’s like 10 hours of productive work over the course of 14 hours in a day. And then other days I might work straight from 8:00 AM to noon and take an hour break and then work from one to 5:00 PM and be done for the day. So I wish I could tell you I had a really great work routine down, but I don’t, it varies so much for me.

[00:20:18] But in terms of hours worked, I would say my business is currently very similar to a regular nine to five job. Um, which again, like I said, is not, that’s not a terrible thing, and I know that there are a lot of people who would love to have a business like that, but that brings me to the future of my business.

[00:20:41] So before I go any further, let me just say that I am grateful for my business and I am so, so grateful. For my clients. All the clients that I’ve worked with in my business so far have really been great. I’ve enjoyed most of the work that I’ve done, um, at, you know, like with anything, they’re always certain tasks that I don’t love to do, but I’ve enjoyed most of the work and all of the clients and I have very much appreciated all of the experience and the new things that I’ve gotten to learn.

[00:21:16] It’s all been amazing and. I feel like the way my business has been going is not sustainable for me long term. I’m finishing up the last of my project work, so things should get a little bit more calm once that’s all done and I can just focus on my retainer clients and I don’t plan on dropping my retainer clients in the near future.

[00:21:45] But now that I know what it feels like for me to be at capacity with clients and how much money I was able to make, you know, being at that capacity. I realize how important it’s going to be for me to create more scalable offerings, whether that’s digital products, service packages that are delivered, you know, the same way to every client, every time, like the IP day or something.

[00:22:10] And a really big reason for that is because I’m currently the only way that my business makes money. My business’s revenue is directly tied to my hours and my ability to show up and to do the work, which there’s nothing inherently wrong with. Like I said, um, I know plenty of people who would love to have a business like that, and I know plenty of OBMs, um, and virtual assistants who have.

[00:22:41] Uh, some of them have been guests on the podcast who have, or have at some point had a similar business model to what I have now, and many people love it because it provides flexibility for them to work, you know, largely on their own schedule from wherever they want and, you know, be able to work their schedule around their family time, around their kids, around whatever.

[00:23:09] And I also love that about my business, and I love that with retainer clients, I have to do virtually no marketing. That is an amazing part of having retainer clients because unless I drop or lose a retainer client, then I don’t have to go out and find new ones. They just pay me the same amount every month and it’s, it’s very consistent.

[00:23:34] It’s very predictable. And from my experience, retainer clients tend to stick around for many months, sometimes years, and I love that about my current business model. It’s fairly flexible, it’s simple and it requires little to no marketing. But what I don’t love is that if I decide to take a week off during the month and I can’t make up.

[00:23:58] That time, like in the, in the rest of the month, if my schedule is just too packed and I can’t, you know, switch things around so that I still get the normal number of hours, then I don’t make as much money. Because typically what I do is I offer a discount on my retainers if they’re hour based and I expect to take off a week or more during the month.

[00:24:20] Right. So what I’m saying is that I would prefer a business model where I can take time off. Like truly unplugged time away with zero work without having to dip into my savings account or worrying about how I’m gonna pay the bills. I started out in this business doing retainer clients and project-based work.

[00:24:46] Now I’m switching to just retainer clients and the next iteration of my business that I’m trying to communicate here is it’s gonna be retainer clients plus some undetermined, scalable offering, like I said, probably a digital product of some sort. That’s still, um, what I have the most ideas for and what I would really like to do.

[00:25:13] So I’m taking inspiration from guests like Casey Ackerman, who started out with retainer clients and then narrowed down on click up with v I P days, of course, and templates. And also Adrian Johnston, who built a wildly profitable business by raising her rates for her clients and scaling with an online course.

[00:25:38] So I’m taking after some of those guests, which by the way, definitely go listen to those episodes if you haven’t already. But unlike retainer work, these types of offerings, courses, templates, v i p days, all require marketing to bring in new leads and customers. And I’ve never been great at marketing and selling.

[00:26:03] So that’s gonna be a big focus for me this year, is learning the skills and the strategy of marketing, but in an ethical way. So part of the reason that I’ve never been great at marketing before is because I’ve always. Just felt like marketing was sleazy. The way that I saw it done online, it, it just felt disingenuous and it felt manipulative.

[00:26:31] So this year I’m learning from Lexi Merri about designing products that people actually need and selling them in a way that’s ethical and doesn’t use the scarcity marketing tactics that we’re all used to seeing online, like fake countdown timers and fake program caps and things like that. Um, Lexi was actually a guest on season one of the podcast.

[00:26:55] She is a launch strategist by a trade, and her episode is about how to launch your first online course in the simplest way possible. So again, go listen to Lexi’s episode if you haven’t already. So in summary, the next iteration of my business is going to be.

[00:27:15] Serving and maintaining my current retainer clients while building and selling my first scalable offering, probably a digital product of some sort. And that’s it for my business update. Um, I’ve been full-time in my business now for 10 months and. Man, I feel like I’ve learned a lot about business and about my industry and really about myself and what I want, and.

[00:27:47] Yeah, I really appreciate you listening. I hope that this was helpful for you in some way today. I know it was a little rambly. I kind of, I appreciate your listening ear because I feel like part of this was just me processing everything that’s happened in my business and, you know, processing through, um, how, where I’ve come from and what’s going on and what I wanna do next.

[00:28:12] So I hope it was also helpful for you in some way and. At the very least, I just, I hope it encourages you to get out there and start the business that you’ve been dreaming of. So yeah.

[00:28:24] I hope you got something out of today’s show. If you’re enjoying the show, don’t forget to follow, subscribe, and leave us a review if you feel so inclined. That would be much appreciated. Thanks so much for being here, and I will see you next time.

[00:28:38]

Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may include typos.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dollar Sprout Podcast, where it’s all about building a business that offers consistent income and flexibility so you can live life on your terms. And now your host, Megan Robinson.

Introduction

[00:00:18] Megan: Welcome back to The Dollars Found Podcast. Thanks so much for being here with us today. Our guest today is Adrian Johnson, who is a freelance presentation designer and whose clients include household names.

[00:00:32] You may have heard of a couple of them, um, companies like Samsung, Microsoft Meta, you know, small little businesses. Um, Adrian shares with us today how she built a wildly profitable service business as an introvert with a strong aversion to networking and cold calling, which. I can relate to, can’t most of us relate to that.

[00:00:56] Adrian did say after our call that this was one of the best podcast interviews she’s ever done. And I don’t say that to brag on me because I’m definitely not the world’s greatest podcast host. I think it was all because Adrian had so many good and interesting things to say, and her story is just so compelling.

[00:01:17] Um, so you’ll learn a lot today. You’ll learn the marketing strategy that worked best for Adrian in her business, in building her business to over $300,000 as an introvert in a way that didn’t require her to get on sales calls or feel like she was constantly selling and pitching herself. You’ll also hear about the epiphany that Adrian had early on in her business that really pushed her to raise her rates.

[00:01:44] She talks a little bit about how she avoids sales calls and still lands huge corporate clients. So what she does, sort of, instead of a sales call, uh, and why her niche is so wildly profitable, because as you’ll hear in this episode, it is a very, very profitable business model. Um, and she gives a few tips for how you can find your own profitable niche.

[00:02:08] So yeah, I’m just so excited you have so much to look forward to in this episode. So I will let you get to it. Please welcome Adrian Johnston.

Interview

[00:02:18] Adrienne Johnston: Hi, Megan Grip. Glad to be here.

[00:02:20] Megan: Yeah, great to have you. Awesome. Um, so would you mind to just introduce yourself a little bit, tell the audience what it is you do in your business and what products or services that you offer.

[00:02:33] Adrienne Johnston: Absolutely. Uh, so I am a freelance presentation designer. That’s the main component of my business. So I help businesses like Microsoft, Samsung, Marriott build their presentation decks in PowerPoint specifically. Um, and then I have another component of my business that is a course for other presentation designers who are maybe really good in PowerPoint and with design, but are struggling on the business side of that, how to get clients and how to retain them.

[00:03:00] And so, uh, that’s really my business in a nutshell. It’s all centered around PowerPoint, as shocking as that may be for a lot of my, a lot of people.

[00:03:08] Megan: That’s very cool though. Yeah, I follow, um, I don’t know if, I love people who have like, Specific, very specific offerings. You know, I follow this, uh, lady on TikTok who is like the, I forget her name, but she is like, her entire business is built around Excel and building Excel spreadsheets and I love that so much.

[00:03:27] Adrienne Johnston: It’s Katherine something. Yeah, she’s amazing.

[00:03:30] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s great. Um, so did I hear you say that you have Microsoft and Marriott or like companies that have been clients in your business?

[00:03:41] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah, regular client, Samsung. It’s really remarkable. Um, so what I see from my perspective is that a lot of these like really big companies and like Microsoft, right, they built the product.

[00:03:53] They have their product people that manage the product who are not designers. They have their designers who are more traditionally trained in the Adobe Suite, and so they don’t have this overlap. There are some internal resources is my understanding from a lot of my clients. Who tend to be kind of at the executive level, but they’re, you know, running really tight schedules.

[00:04:12] They’re like, we’re going into a meeting with the board tomorrow, and so we need this turned around quickly. And they can’t really fight for some of those internal resources that even exist, so they just outsource it. So it’s really neat to like this really interesting niche that so many designers and we all laugh about it, right?

[00:04:31] It’s PowerPoint is not a design tool except that. People need to use PowerPoint and it needs to look good. So it kind of has to become a design tool over time. And that’s what’s happening as people’s expectations, I think, around social media. And you’ve got tools like Canva now allow people who maybe don’t have great design skills to do better than they ever have been able to do before.

[00:04:52] And so expectations are rising and you can’t go into a meeting anymore with the death by PowerPoint, bulleted slides and your stock graphics with watermarks on them.

[00:05:01] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that’s, that’s so true. Uh, yeah. I have definitely, even using Canva though, I feel like my design skills are so lacking. Like even using a Canva template, if I don’t use it exactly the way that it’s set up, it’s like, I’m just pitiful.

[00:05:21] I’m completely lost. So I, I want to know how you found out about, I guess, this niche, but also like, how do you get clients like Microsoft and Marriott and Samsung? Like, I was not expecting you to say that.

[00:05:39] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah. So, um, let’s start with how I get clients. Um, I invested in SEO in my business really early on, so, um, I’m a huge introvert.

[00:05:50] I’m a talker, but I’m an introvert, so I will never go out and seek the need to interact with other people. Which, you know, when I went into my business, I really thought was, you can’t have your business if you’re not a salesperson and you’re not an extrovert. Um, but I was really committed to, I didn’t wanna be in an office environment anymore, and I wanted to have more control of who I worked with and, um, my schedule and how much money I made, all of it.

[00:06:14] And so I got on Upwork of all random things, and that was really how I discovered presentation design. So I was, I was doing everything under the sun, like Shopify sites and building websites and changing swatches on fabric curtains. Like, it, it was crazy. And I wasn’t efficient at anything. So my background’s marketing and operation.

[00:06:34] So the way I think is both from a design, but it’s also from a process standpoint, right? And so I was like, I’m able to get clients. I, I’m able to do the work, but me trying to learn every single thing isn’t gonna work, right? If I’m just one person, I really have to like, niche down and focus on. What I can do well and what pays really well.

[00:06:54] And so when I looked at it, the, the projects that I was winning the most easily because there was so little competition and that paid really well for presentations. Um, and when I really dug into that, it’s, so many designers won’t use PowerPoint because it’s not the, but so many clients want it, but the clients who want it also want it for things tied to revenue generally.

[00:07:16] So pitch decks and sales decks. So they’ve got a marketing dollars to spend and so they have better budgets than someone who is, you know, maybe just trying to get graphics up on their website and things like that. So I just really quickly streamlined, um, I was about three months into my business and I said, okay, this is where I need to be and where I can play and really stand out.

[00:07:38] But now how do I become an expert in this? And I said, I’m never gonna go out and network. I just won’t do it. There will be no business. So what do I have to do to make this work for me? And I was doing some research, um, around kind of how to be an expert and I Googled freelance presentation designer to see who other freelance presentation designers were.

[00:08:02] And I found one guy on this page and his website was, it was okay, right? But it was really highly SEO optimized. But I was like, he must be like an expert in the industry. And now, five years later, I realize that he’s not really at all. He just knew how to optimize his page. Um, and that’s not a slight on him at all.

[00:08:20] But, uh, there were a bunch of other pages on that site and when I was looking at them, they were ranking for this, this term, but they weren’t freelance presentation designers. They just happened to have the right code on their website. And so I said, well, I can do that. So I bought a course on seo, which ended up being far too robust.

[00:08:38] It was an amazing course, um, built for bloggers, um, and being way more than I needed, right? They’re trying to get millions of page views and I need to get a couple of hundred a month with keywords that are not. Very difficult to rank for. So within three months of optimizing my website, um, and building some back links to it, I was ranking on the first page for Freelance Presentation designer.

[00:08:59] And over the years, you know, I’ve continued to get back links and kind of continued to manage that. It’s not a lot of work, but those leads keep coming in. And what I rank for continues to expand and into more d more difficult keywords now. Um, and so it’s been really fantastic as an introvert who’s never gonna go out and get business to really, um, I’m also what I call a servant spirit.

[00:09:22] Like I love helping people, but I don’t ever wanna ask people for things. Um, and so it’s really fantastic for me because people come to me and they say, Hey, can you help me? And you say Yes. And it’s big name brands, right? I mean, there are plenty of smaller brands and smaller companies, but there are people who I always laugh too.

[00:09:39] Like, they’re like me, right? These aren’t people who are going to a network or going to LinkedIn and saying, Hey, who would you use for a freelance presentation designer? They’re people who are gonna go Google it. Cause I don’t wanna bother somebody else. They’re my people. And so I found a way to attract my people to me in a way that was really comfortable for me.

[00:09:56] Um, and what I always tell people about that is, you know, there’s such advantages to being in that position where I have three or four leads a day. I mean, far more than I can manage. So I have like a network of people that I refer leads to. Um, but that ability, I got a message from TikTok and I was like, well, I’m taking this one right?

[00:10:16] Like it’s TikTok. You know, it’s, and not all of them pan like TikTok didn’t end up panning out. Um, but a lot of them do and like big name brands that need help and you get in there and you’re helping one executive and it’s always funny because they’re like, oh, you know, we don’t wanna tell anybody about you cuz you know what they’re competing with internally is the resources.

[00:10:35] So they don’t wanna be competing with that with their freelancers they found. Um, but they always end up like making introductions and you just kind of expand out from there. Or clients, uh, go to new companies, they get hired someplace else and they call you up and say, Hey, I’m here now. And so you now have those relationships as well in these new companies.

[00:10:51] Megan: Wow, that’s amazing. First of all, that you were able to find a way as somebody who’s introverted and doesn’t like to network, which I can super empathize with because I am the same way. I’ve talked about this on several episodes of this podcast where I’m like, ah, I need, I know I need to be doing more like cold outreach or whatever.

[00:11:10] Cuz that’s what so many people say. Um, but yeah, and I just like love that you found a way to. Get business that doesn’t involve networking and doing the things that you don’t like to do. Um, and this is off topic for where I planned to go for this next part of this conversation, but I wanna know, like, are there other things that you’ve done, uh, in your business to optimize for that?

[00:11:35] Like for your personality, your introverted nature, um, for example, like do you do sales calls with potential clients or have you found a different way? Um, yeah, anything that comes to mind there.

[00:11:50] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah. So, you know, I think, and the side effect of the SEO that I didn’t anticipate early on was that I was gonna be attracting people like me, right?

[00:11:57] Who didn’t wanna bother, people who weren’t talkers, who, you know, they don’t wanna get a phone call all the time. Um, so that was huge and an unintended benefit, but I would say that, um, You know, the whole way I approach it is my website is just built out for like, here are all the questions. Here’s what I can do.

[00:12:15] You know, let me know if you wanna talk. But when they send me a message, I respond back With rates and timing, right? We don’t need to get on a sales call. I don’t need, I’m not gonna sell you on anything. Like this is what it costs and this is what my timeline can accommodate. If that works for you, let me know.

[00:12:31] And I send them a link to my Calendly so that they can book a time to chat. But at that point, it’s already, there’s no selling you on the value of me, right? Like, you’ve got my testimonials, you can see my body of work, um, you know, I’ve been responsive to your message. So, you know, at that point it’s a matter of let’s get on a phone call if you are okay with all of that.

[00:12:49] Um, and so it’s not a sales call at that point. It really becomes an informational, Hey, here’s how I work. What do you have? Would you like to share what you’re working on and see if I can help? Um, and it really becomes a lot more consultative. Than a sales call. So that’s super huge. Um, and I would also say just social media.

[00:13:08] I’m not a big social media person. I don’t know if it’s somewhat age. When I was younger, I was all over it. Like I was out, I was doing things, you know, um, and I’m just, I don’t do that anymore. Um, and I don’t enjoy it for my business because it does feel so salesy. Um, and it feels, so I’d much rather have that one-on-one connection than like this kind of, I’m just talking to anybody and everybody.

[00:13:31] Um, and so I have a lot of that scheduled so that I have that social media presence and I’ll respond to messages of people comment. Um, but I don’t use it for lead generation though. I have gotten messages through that platform, through those platforms just as a function of being active. But what’s really interesting, the number one people, the number one place people click off of my site after they’ve gotten to it, is to go to my Instagram.

[00:13:54] So I’ve gotta keep that active. Right? And I think as part of it, as, you know, you find a website and you’re like, how active is this? Right? When like, is this person really around versus when they go to your social media, they can see that you’re like still doing this. Right? Um, and it kind of builds more social proof.

[00:14:12] So I would say those are the big things. But in many ways, I mean, I, I’ve built my whole business around kind of what I wanted. And there was this time period, I was about nine months into my business and I, it was like six o’clock at night and I still had a ton of work to do and I wasn’t gonna get paid wet well on this project.

[00:14:30] And it was a client who was kind of needy. He was one of those, like, you’re on version 30 of a document and you’re like, Ugh. It’s just painful. I remember going, you know, you used to blame the job, right? It was the bosses. It was, it was always something else. But you’re the lowest common denominator in this situation.

[00:14:49] So at some point you have to realize you keep building this around you and so you have to build what you want. And so I took care of that client’s stuff that weekend and then told him like it wasn’t gonna be a good fit and that we should move on. And I’m a really big proponent of like, when you’re running your own business and you want it to be something that you enjoy, you have to make, like be really diligent about that.

[00:15:14] And so you don’t always know, right? Like when you meet a client for the first time, if it’s gonna be the right fit, you generally kind of get a sense. But every now and again, somebody slips through and you have to be, I think, authentic with yourself and with them to say, Hey, we are not the right fit, right?

[00:15:29] I’m not enjoying this work. If I dread every time you send me a message, I’m gonna take longer to respond to your phone calls. I’m gonna take longer to get to your work just cuz I don’t wanna do it. And that’s not fair to you. Um, and the outcomes that you want and need. And so, um, since I’ve been really diligent about that, and then just really diligent about, excuse me, um, you know, kind of the timing and the compensation and all of it, like, is it what I want?

[00:15:53] Um, does it create the lifestyle that I set out to create? And if it doesn’t, then it’s just not the right fit. And there’s no hard feelings in that. And, you know, we can go our separate ways, um, kind of get them where they need to be, solve whatever problems we currently have on the table, and then make a referral to somebody.

[00:16:09] I know plenty of people in the presentation design space, and so I’m always like, oh, you know, I’m a sensitive person. So like, if someone’s just kind of snippy or like, not what I would consider kind of warm. So they’re also usually people who are introverts, but they’re also nice introverts. You know, they’re like warm pe introverts.

[00:16:27] Then I’m like, Hey, I know somebody who totally is not gonna be phased by this in the way that I’m like, Ooh, do they like me? Did they do, did I do a good enough job? Like, and other people who are just like, it’s fine. Like, I don’t, it doesn’t even hit my radar, you know? And that’s a better fit for them.

[00:16:41] Megan: Yeah, I, it’s, I’m, I love hearing you talk about this, like building the business around what it is that you want, the lifestyle that you want.

[00:16:49] Obviously we talk about that a lot on this podcast. Um, but it’s something that I’ve also been thinking about really in the last couple of weeks in my own business because, um, I just went full-time in, in my new version of my business, um, like a few months ago. And a couple weeks ago I was staring at my calendar and I had like four packed days of meetings.

[00:17:14] Four out of five weekdays were just packed with meetings. And I was laying in bed looking at my calendar for like, that Monday morning. And I was, I was just so sad because I do not like having that many meetings. It’s exhausting for me. And I had that thought of like, I. How did I get here? How did I, like, I thought I was building the business that I wanted, but apparently I’m not.

[00:17:37] How did I get here and what do I do to, you know, turn it around? So, I’m curious, like, when you were in that position with that client, like how, how did you, how were you able to make that decision to do something different? What did you have to have in place in terms of like, I don’t know, maybe revenue in your business, um, at the time, or like, what, what allowed you to make that decision and how quickly did it happen?

[00:18:05] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah, so, you know, when I started, I, we talked about, I was on Upwork, um, that was January of 2018. I was working probably 80 hours a week and making like $5,000 a month, which not terrible. But obviously way out of balance, especially considering I was probably working 70 hours a week in my full-time job and I was at one 30, so closer to 10, eight, probably eight by the time you’d plan clear taxes and everything.

[00:18:30] And so, but I was working just as much, but making less, right? That wasn’t gonna work out for me. That’s not what I was trying to build. And so, um, I did the SEO thing in April was when I realized I really needed to hone in on presentation design. By that July, I had started to get leads through my website, but by September, um, all of those leads were starting to close and ramp up.

[00:18:54] And so I went from those $5,000 months working 80 hours to, I was still working in my business right on the s e o and getting back links and, and really I was writing blog posts. I was doing all these things to establish authority, um, in those summer months, but my revenue dropped down to like $2,000 a month.

[00:19:12] And then by September I got up to $10,000 months by January of 2019. So a year in, I was starting to hit $15,000 months. And aside from like Christmas, I don’t drop below that. Like I have to try to, to not hit that. Um, and so what I think about that, that was, you know, a lot of people didn’t have, wouldn’t have had the luxury I had, which was my husband.

[00:19:37] We both had very comparable jobs and we made good money and so we had dual incomes. And so when I said I’m really miserable, he said, it’s fine. Like we can figure it out. Like you do what you need to do. And so I definitely had that luxury in those months that I think if I had been the single and one income, I never probably would’ve been able to take the leap.

[00:19:57] I would’ve had to do the side hustle route instead of just being like, I’m done. I’m quitting my job, which is more dramatic. I gave them four months lead time. People are always like, you just walked out and no, it’s not that dramatic. Um, But then I also, you know, in that kind of, those, that three to six month period when I was doing a lot less work, more on the business, that wasn’t revenue generating though obviously was an amazing investment to make long term.

[00:20:23] I probably wouldn’t have been able to be as strict there, which probably would’ve actually slowed my growth. Um, because what I did is I said, Hey, in this period I’m not working for less than a hundred dollars an hour. And what I quickly realized is the a hundred dollars an hour, um, kind of brought up a lot of pain points for other individuals around how much money they made and things like that.

[00:20:41] And so that’s when I went to project-based pricing. Um, that was easier for people to kind of quantify and say, okay, if I’m doing 15 slides, and I think at the time I was like $33 a slide. Um, and for context now I’m at 75. I have students who are way past that. So it’s, there’s quite the span there. But, um, at $33 a slide and 10 slides, you know, I can say I know exactly how much that’s gonna cost me versus hourly.

[00:21:05] People feel like, okay, but is it three hours or is it 30? I don’t, I don’t know what to expect on that hourly rate. So I really got really diligent about that and said, I’m not working for less than that. If not this time needs to be spent on blog posts and Maio doing all that work. So I think that, you know, to really get to that position, it was, I had the backup of my husband and then, um, kind of knowing that there was this long-term plan coming, but by September when I was starting to have, like the client in particular that Friday night, my first client, literally my first freelance client, right?

[00:21:41] You know, and you’re so excited for, to do six hours of work for $200, you’re just like, yes, someone wants to hire me. So thrilled. But just nine months later you’re like, I’m, you know, making a couple of dollars an hour on your thing, doing 30 revisions, which for any designer is just painful to keep tweaking the same thing over and over.

[00:22:02] Um, and so, you know, I kind of got there and it’s. He didn’t fit in anymore, he was at the bottom. And another thing I’m really, really passionate about with my students and everything is you’re gonna start out in one place and you’re gonna end up in another. And hopefully that happens quickly if you do the right things and make the right investments in your business.

[00:22:20] And so you have to kind of go into it knowing that like, I may charge you $30 an hour and in six months I’m gonna be at a hundred dollars an hour. And you’re gonna have to have those conversations. And it’s only fair to the client. Right? And the client in particular for me, I knew that he was very fiscally responsible and conservative, and that’s just where he needed to be in his business.

[00:22:41] Um, and there’s no fault in that. But that wasn’t where I was in my business anymore. And so it worked out for a period of time for him. And, um, There have been times that he’s come back to me and said, I just need you to do it, and I know what your rate is and just, but I need you to do it because I don’t have time, or I don’t, like, can’t find anybody else to do this thing for me.

[00:22:58] Um, but that’s not the case for him on a day-to-day basis. Right? He can find somebody to do it cheaper and that’s more comfortable for him and for his business. Um, long story short, I just think that you have to be really diligent about raising rates and like giving your clients the opportunity to compete with new clients as you’re raising those rates.

[00:23:15] Um, and they can choose and say, and I always, the way I I frame raising your rates is, Hey, you know, effective, especially now we’re coming up at the end of the year, uh, starting in January. You know, I, my rates are going up to this. Um, let me know if that works for your budget. If not, I’d be happy to make some introductions to other people who may be a better fit in terms of budget and who I trust, right?

[00:23:38] And so then it’s not a matter of selling them on it, right? It’s, you can either say that I’m worth it and or it fits into your budget or not. And nine times outta 10 clients come back and say, Yeah, that’s fine. It’s not worth it to them to try and go source somebody else. Maybe have to go through five people, miss some deadlines and all of that.

[00:23:56] So, um, but having that conversation allows the new clients or the old clients who probably love you, they’ve been with you for years, like to compete with those new clients who are paying higher rates now.

[00:24:08] Megan: Yeah, absolutely. I never asked you this before, but um, what is the story of like, what you were doing?

[00:24:15] I know you said you, you quit your job cuz you just weren’t happy. Um, what was that job? What were you doing before you started in your business and, and what was kind of like, I mean, I guess it sounds like maybe the motivation was that. You didn’t like your job and you wanted to do something you liked, but what’s the story there?

[00:24:34] Adrienne Johnston: My, my background’s kind of weird, but I promise it all does come together. I majored in chemistry. I thought I was gonna be a pediatrician. Um, as it turned out in college, I very quickly realized, um, yours truly does not have the stamina for anything less than eight to nine hours of sleep a night. So getting through residency in med school was never gonna be an option.

[00:24:52] Just couldn’t do. And then as an introvert, like what was I even thinking? That what an exhausting job. And I only ever had one child. So like, clearly maybe pediatrics wasn’t the way to go either. Um, but I worked like three years in, I mean, I was almost done with my chemistry degree when I really realized that that was the case.

[00:25:11] And my advisor said, well, you could go to law school. And I was like, oh, that doesn’t sound appealing at all. Um, I did some undergraduate research and so I was in the lab and I was like, I really just don’t wanna be in the lab. Even as an introvert, it was the same five people every day doing the exact same thing.

[00:25:26] It wasn’t enough stimulation. But it’s a really process driven thing. And incidentally, where I first use PowerPoint for my lab reports, and I always say I should have known that I was more of a designer and I still struggled to consider myself a creative because of that analytical background. Um, I spent more time making my lab reports look pretty than caring about what the results were, but they had to look good, you know?

[00:25:48] Um, so after school I started working for Starbucks, very process and marketing driven. And there, um, I was working at the Starbucks at Tech Square in Atlanta. So we had a bunch of startup founders, you know, coming through every morning for coffee. And so I just got to know a lot of people, um, and eventually was recruited to work for one of those companies.

[00:26:07] I was a healthcare startup. Um, it was, this was 2007, 2008. So during the recession it was like, not great times, but it just happened to be the perfect market and they had capitalized on it perfectly and it was just like riding a rocket ship in the midst of everything else kind of crumbling around you, you know?

[00:26:24] So it was really rapid growth. Um, And I was there for six years. And then I went to work for a spinoff of that company, um, which never really got traction. And then from there, I went to work for the wealth management firm, uh, the BC firm that had, uh, invested in the first healthcare startup because I’d known them for a really long time.

[00:26:46] As it turned out, and I didn’t know this, I’d never had an experience before, um, in a job where I couldn’t make it work. You know, I, it didn’t even occur to me that you couldn’t just make anything work. Um, and it was, so, it was a wealth management firm. So it’s financial services, it’s very conservative, unlike your startup space, right?

[00:27:07] Which is like fun and trips to Vegas. And, uh, it, it was conservative, right? You didn’t spend money. There was nothing. Um, effectively the way those wealth management firms make money as they’re. Taking a percentage of the gains from their clients, right? So you can’t be flashy with that. Cause some people say, we’re paying you too much.

[00:27:26] So the office environment and dynamics were just more conservative. And then, um, the other thing that I didn’t appreciate going into it is I don’t really care about finance. And so I was just like, oh, it’s an operational job. Like I care about clients and that’ll be enough. But so much of it was strategy around, hey, I, you know, how are, you know, we executing and getting more clients and doing all these things, which I learned a lot, but I just realized I was, I’d been there three years and I realized I was working myself like to the bone and I.

[00:27:57] I was like, I need to get my C F P. I don’t know why I thought that I needed to do that, um, in the role that I was in, but I was like, to be really serious about this, and I opened up the book, I got to like page seven and I was like, I just don’t care. And it was really this moment I can remember sitting at my desk in my office this epiphany, like, I just don’t care.

[00:28:15] Like they were amazing people. It was certainly maybe not the best office environment for me. Um, but there were also other things, you know, I kind of look back going on in my life at that time. Right. My daughter, um, she was four or five. I remember there was one day, like I had a meeting I had to be at and she was sick and I had to go pick her up and bring her back to the office with me.

[00:28:37] And I was just like, this just kind of, you know, nothing’s really working here. Everything was kind of broken all at once. And I think that, you know, ultimately led to. The decision, it was time to leave. And I met with an old mentor, my former boss, and he said, you haven’t been happy there ever. Like, you always thought you were gonna figure it out at some point.

[00:28:55] And he’s like, but maybe it’s just time to like call it. And I was like, I can’t just quit my job. And he’s like, you would make it work. Like you could figure it out. You won’t be unemployed that long. You don’t work. Contribute to 401K for a few months, you’ll be fine. And uh, I came home that night and I said to my husband, I’m gonna think about it for a few days, but like, I think I just need to like rip the bandaid off and like quit.

[00:29:17] And he said, you know, I support whatever you think you need to do. And I was like, well, it’s financial services. And so for people who in that aren’t in that industry, um, especially on the client side, you know, you come in and you say, I’m quitting. Like th they walk you out immediately and send your stuff home to you later.

[00:29:34] Like it is not, I wasn’t in that client facing role and so it didn’t end up being that way, but I was like, there’s a chance that that happens. I think it’s slim. Um, but we ended up working out a four month transition plan and they were really great to me and still they’re a client now. Um, an amazing group of people.

[00:29:51] Yeah. Like they’ve been so supportive. And it’s funny cuz I was like, ah, my rates are probably too high. Cuz I knew what they were paying people and they were like, no, like we just need to get it done and we know you’ll get it done. And you’re like, okay. Um, so like a really amazing group of people and it’s been amazing to be able to, you know, continue to work with them and the way that was really meant for me to work with them.

[00:30:12] Megan: I’ve had that happen too with two former, uh, employers who ended up being clients in my business. And I think that that’s something that, um, I don’t know is talked about enough, but like, is a possibility. Just cuz you leave your job doesn’t mean that you have to leave on bad terms, you know, unless there are, sometimes it doesn’t work out.

[00:30:32] But like, my first and some of the best clients in my business have been businesses that used to employ me. Um, so yeah. That’s amazing. I’m glad that worked out well for you. And uh, also just very funny because I too was in, uh, my, my degree was in finance with a focus in financial planning. So I, the grand plan was to be a cfp, you know, and I had that revelation like my.

[00:31:03] S I don’t know, senior first semester of my senior year of school, I was just like, I really don’t care about, I don’t wanna do this. You know, like, I don’t wanna help people plan for retirement. That’s just not what I wanna do. Um, so yeah, I mean, here we are however many years later, that didn’t work out for me.

[00:31:22] So that’s just funny.

[00:31:24] Adrienne Johnston: A lot of people think of that like as a failure, and it’s just, I was talking to my old business coach the other day, um, and she was like, it’s funny how you’ve been kind of circling for years, right? On like, wanting to have like the flexibility and the freedom and start your own business, but you never could find the right way to do it.

[00:31:40] Um, and the right, and she’s like, it’s, it’s amazing to see the journey. And I think so many people think, oh, I failed at this, or I wasn’t thoughtful enough. I mean, you’re just, we’re always getting to know each ourselves better and better. And part of like the stops and starts is, That wasn’t the right thing for me, but what did I learn from it?

[00:31:56] What do I take to the next thing to get closer to where the right place for me really is?

[00:32:01] Megan: Yeah, I totally agree and I have, I’ve had so many failures, uh, many of which I’ve shared on this podcast, but like, I didn’t do financial planning, but I thought maybe financial coaching would be a better fit. Turns out I didn’t like that either.

[00:32:15] Did a bunch of different stuff in my business and yeah, I just, like, I’ve been also kind of circling, figuring out what is gonna be the business idea that I stick with for like six years, you know, five or six years. And I’m finally at a point in my business where like I feel decent despite like not having the ideal schedule right now.

[00:32:39] Like I feel decent about what I’m building. Um, and it took five to six years to learn what that would be and to kind of, Figure it out. But here it is. Um, and yeah, that’s okay. Failures are part of the process. Um, I do wanna go back to what you said. Uh, you were talking about being a chemistry major, I think, and how you never considered yourself a creative because you did have that analytical side to you.

[00:33:11] And I don’t even know that I have a question around this. I just kind of wanna hear you talk more about it cuz I feel the same way. You know, like there are these two sides of me that exist that I feel like we’re told can’t exist in one person. You know, like I am very analytical. I love spreadsheets, I love numbers, I love systems and processes.

[00:33:33] Like I love that side of what I do. In my business as like an operations manager, but I also love writing poetry and like being creative and yeah. I don’t know, I just kind of wanna hear your thoughts.

[00:33:50] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah. Have you, um, ever done like any of the personality tests, um, disk, Myers, Brigg, all of them. You’ve done them all.

[00:34:00] So on disk, how do you, do you remember what your ranking was or like were you…

[00:34:06] Megan: I think I was a high S and high I maybe. Okay. I can’t remember which one was higher though.

[00:34:14] Adrienne Johnston: And it, it almost doesn’t matter, but they’re both high. Yeah. And so they’re almost competing. Mm-hmm. So I’m a high I high C, which are like opposite ends, and it’s very interesting.

[00:34:26] I’ll send you a list. Uh, My old business coach, uh, she has a, a podcast called the Disco Chicks. I’ll send you a link to it. Cause we were talking about, she asked me to guess, she was like, you have a weird profile. And it’s, but there is this always struggle in my head between how high level do I go and how detailed do I go?

[00:34:43] And so I struggle e even sometimes like trying to articulate myself. Cause I’m like, well that’s too much detail. And so I’m always kind of like readjusting as I go, but it creates this busyness in my mind that it can be distracting. And I, I think it contributes to my, like, silliness when I’m talking cuz I just like start, you know, using my hands and I’m like, there’s a lot happening and it’s like trying to get all that energy out.

[00:35:08] But, um, I think in general, like for me, I guess I was always a little bit artist artistic. Like I liked coloring and drawing and sewing and all those things. As a kid, I. You know, my mom said, you need to be a doctor. I grew up in a small town and you were a doctor, a lawyer or a realtor, like if you wanted to make this money, she was like, you’ll be a doctor.

[00:35:30] And so like that was really kind of just the path I took. And because of that, I followed this really analytical path. I went to an engineering school. Um, everything’s very process driven, but my brain does actually work that way. And so, you know, the kind of mixing of the two and realizing I was, I was learning Photoshop on the weekends, I was like my hobby.

[00:35:51] But both things there and they, they coexist. And I still struggle to say I’m creative cuz I even think that the way that I approach design is very structured and process driven and methodical. I see something and I’m like, I like that. Why do I like that? Let’s break that down and figure out why that works and why it doesn’t.

[00:36:10] And when I go to design, like a slide for a client, like I, what is the point of this slide, right? Like there’s not just like trying to make it look pretty, it’s. What is the main point and how am I gonna convey that and then how do I structure all the content that they wanna have on this slide around that to make sure that that’s the focus.

[00:36:28] So it’s very engineering approach to design that. I dunno that a lot of designers, I think they’re creative and so they can approach it without maybe being that like analytical and process driven about it. Yeah. And cause they just feel where works. They don’t have to break it down that way.

[00:36:45] Megan: Right. Yeah.

[00:36:46] I’m so glad to hear you talk about that though, because I feel the same way. I’m actually, I’m working on an article right now. It’s the first kind of more creative article that I’ve written cuz I used to write a lot of SEO content, you know, with Dollar Sprout and with, you know, other websites. Um, and so I’m working on the first more creative article that I’ve done in.

[00:37:08] A long time. And I’m finding that like I’m almost enjoying creating the outline and the structure of the information more than the creative writing. I mean, I’m enjoying them both, but like, it’s just the way that my, yeah, the way that my brain works and like even doing something creative, I’m like very structured about it.

[00:37:26] So it’s just nice to hear you talk about that. Thank you for sharing and making me feel a little less crazy. Um, but yeah, I totally think like you can be that way, you can be a creative and an analytical person. Um, a hundred percent. And it sounds like in your business, that’s kind of an advantage.

[00:37:52] Adrienne Johnston: A hundred percent.

[00:37:53] Yes. Yeah. And I think, you know, um, I would say this like I built my business. Around the creative aspects, right? Like, even though I have a course in things, I can’t imagine letting go of, like the creative outlet of doing the design work. Um, I expect at some point that may take a little bit less time. Uh, the design, like doing the design work, you just have to kind of like feel it out as you go.

[00:38:20] But I can’t imagine letting go of that. But I get so much of that analytical stuff right, in QuickBooks and like, oh, the reconciliation isn’t working, so now I need to go step by step through this detail and figure out what happened. Um, or, you know, the strategy of like, what’s the next thing to do and how to grow and scale.

[00:38:37] And so there’s a lot of ways to get that, that aren’t even in the creative side, if that makes sense to, and there are days, there are days I’m like, Ugh, the thought of opening PowerPoint, today’s not a creative day. Today’s an analytic day, right? And just kind of like feeling that out and like trying to work it into your schedule so that you don’t.

[00:38:57] Burnout, right? Everything is all about like, just tap who into who you are, right? Like let it flow to the extent possible. And

[00:39:06] Megan: Okay. I feel like I super buried the lead because I meant to ask you about some metrics in your business early on, but whatever it was that you said in the beginning just took me in a totally different direction.

[00:39:17] So, sorry, I’m all over the place with like questioning. Um, but you talked about like where you were before you started your business and kind of how you got started. Would you mind to share where you are now? Like what does, uh, your revenue look like and what’s the profitability? And you also said that you were comfortable sharing your personal income paid by the business.

[00:39:40] Would you mind to just talk about those numbers a little bit?

[00:39:43] Adrienne Johnston: Absolutely. So, um, in terms of the business, there are two parts, right? There’s my freelance work and then there’s the course part. My freelance work, um, the last couple of years I, at two 40. Um, $240,000 a year total. So roughly 20,000 a month.

[00:40:01] That’s super profitable. Um, let’s see. I’m just looking at the numbers here so that in design services I have $16,000 in expenses, so that’s going, that’s not gonna include my salary, but that’s gonna include design, assets, taxes, that kind of stuff. Um, so you’re talking about like, that’s still over 200,000 net, which is just crazy.

[00:40:28] That can’t be all the taxes, obviously that wouldn’t include, okay, so this is what I’m looking at the numbers year to date. And so that’s not going to include some taxes anyway on the other side, the course side, um, that has made $66,000 this year, but this year has been a slower year. I think, you know, people are a little bit more concerned about the recession and things like that.

[00:40:49] It was, um, up almost a hundred last year, and I’m sorry. It’s at 92 already. This is a different number I’m looking at. So year to date it’s, it’s 92, and then the expenses though, on the course side are $42,000, so it’s way less profitable. I do have, um, an operations manager that is getting up to speed on all of that, so, you know, kind of helping with some of the logistics and answering questions and a lot of the marketing activities.

[00:41:17] Um, and so that’s impacted the profitability of that this year, but I expect that by next year, you know, we’re, we’re seeing the benefits and the upside of that investment. Um, so overall it’s over $300,000 in total revenue. Um, I have an L L C, um, that’s got an S corp election, so I, I am on salary. Um, I pay myself a salary of $60,000 a year, which is kind of in the average of what a presentation designer on staff makes.

[00:41:48] Um, and then the res distributed to me as a, um, Investor, a shareholder of the company. Um, and so that way I don’t have to pay all those freelance taxes. They, the account estimates it saves between 15 and $20,000 in taxes a year. So totally worth it. Um, in terms of total income, I come in right around 200 kind of net after you take out all the expenses and everything.

[00:42:14] Megan: I mean, that’s amazing. That is a wildly profitable business.

[00:42:19] Adrienne Johnston: It is, and it’s funny because it, I always, I’m like, it could be way more wildly profitable if I work tomorrow. So I work on average 25 to 30 hours a week. Um, the course ends up taking more time, um, on top of that. But in terms of like, when I look at my, the freelance side, it’s super highly profitable and flexible.

[00:42:40] Um, again, we’re going through an investment phase in the course, so it’s just kind of a matter of like that time and, and money investment, you know, starting to pick itself back up and offset it, but yeah. Yeah. It’s super huge. And I, you know, I told you I love talking about it because people will send me messages on social media and then they’re like, you’re lying about your revenue.

[00:43:01] And I’m like, I don’t need to lie about it. Like, but I, you know, it’s, I couldn’t fathom that when I was starting, like, I would listen to podcasts like Dollar Sprout and, um, entrepreneurs on Fire and just like listened to years for what other people were doing. And big businesses says small businesses and what, nobody ever talks about profitability, which drives me crazy.

[00:43:23] Um, cause that’s a big deal. There are expenses to running a business, even if it’s just your own salary and taxes. Like, um, and so I’m a big proponent of talking about that because, you know, a third, a third of money outta my business goes to expenses and taxes. Like it just is. But I mean, the reality is, is that it’s still really profitable.

[00:43:42] Um, I’m making almost twice what I made in my full-time job, working way less hours from home. Right. I make the decisions about what I’m gonna do. Culturally, it gave me an opportunity to put my money where my mouth is. Right? Like it’s very easy to judge, you know, when you’re working for other companies and you’re like, oh, why don’t they do this and why don’t they offer this benefit?

[00:44:03] And, and you know, and I’m like, if we’re gonna have a business, like it needs to be able to support having healthcare for people and dental and all of the things, and we’re gonna take time off at Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I was just looking at the calendar. The first, uh, new Year’s is falling on, uh, Sunday.

[00:44:20] So I was like, I plan to come back to work on the second. And I was like, no, we need to observe the first on the Monday so we don’t come back till the third. But like, you have to think through all of those things, you know?

[00:44:30] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s actually the article that I was talking about earlier is kind of, uh, is about like as basically about how like as a business owner, you get to choose, um, where you invest your, your money and how to like invest your money.

[00:44:47] Uh, In your business to align with your values and you know, like doing, doing business an ethical way, it’s about doing business ethically. Um, and yeah, I think that’s one of the huge perks of having a business is that you do get to choose like, what do you think an ethical business looks like? Or, you know, what does a good business look like?

[00:45:06] And, and that’s what you get to do is the profitability in your business because of your niche. Is it because it’s a B2B business? Like how, what makes this business so profitable?

[00:45:20] Adrienne Johnston: Um, you know, I think on, on the revenue side, you’re able to charge a premium for a couple of reasons. One, so few designers work in PowerPoint, right?

[00:45:32] Cuz they don’t like it. It’s not a design tool. So what you have is, the presentation design industry is remarkable and it’s the first. Design niche I’ve seen that is, so I call it blue ocean, right? It’s so not competitive as a function of the fact that all these really great designers wanna work in these other tools.

[00:45:53] And so in presentation design, you have a lot of presentation designers who maybe aren’t the best designers, but they know PowerPoint is a need. Um, they may struggle to charge premium rates, but maybe not just kind of depending on, they have that expertise, um, that other people don’t. And then, um, the other thing that I think allows for that kind of buffer in the pricing range isn’t just the competition, but it’s the, what are you building?

[00:46:22] There is a very clear revenue tied to, or income, you know, tied to if a pitch deck, if we’re gonna go raise $5 million, we can spend $5,000 on this deck. Right. And so that’s what you’re gonna pay. And then, um, same thing, sales decks. Like if we know that we’re gonna go out and sell this new product to all of our existing clients and we need to have a professional deck that goes out and does that, we’re gonna make that investment in order to go out and look professional and, and have this tool available to our sales team.

[00:46:52] And so I think that that tie to sales and marketing allows for a little bit more flexibility in, in the pricing of the product, but I would expect there really shouldn’t be, in my mind, too much of a difference in terms of expenses, um, that would relate to the profitability across design niches, um, for me as a freelancer, right?

[00:47:17] I don’t have overhead. I bill back, you know, a portion of my office space and things like that, um, as reimbursable expenses through the business. Obviously consult a tax advisor for information on that. Um, but obviously there are some expenses that I can deduct there. Um, but for the most part, right, I have stock assets.

[00:47:38] Um, I do have the Adobe suite, so I do pay for that just to be able to do photo touchups and things like that. Um, I pay for PowerPoint. Um, I have like some stock icon sites and things like that that I subscribe to, but overall, my expenses on the design side are really low. It’s a very efficient business.

[00:47:57] The course, obviously there’s platforms for hosting webinars and email and that gets crazy fast. And then just reinvestment into learning how do you build that side of the business? But yeah, I think that it’s being tied to sales and marketing and, but also not being afraid to charge a premium, cuz you’re not competing on price, you’re competing on your talents and abilities.

[00:48:19] Megan: Yeah. I feel like I’ve never been great at finding that blue ocean, you know, like, but you’re inspiring me so much to go look at what other people in my industry right now are doing and then looking for like the holes that I could fill. Like for you, how not many designers work in PowerPoint. Um, yeah, I feel like I’ve never been super good at that.

[00:48:44] I’m open to any tips you have on just like how to think about that if you have any, it’s okay if you don’t, but I’m definitely gonna go out and do some research after this conversation.

[00:48:55] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah, like I would go look at other people’s websites. I mean, we just did this activity, so, um, in my course we do weekly calls, um, and we have kind of a senior group of people who’ve been in the program two years, and then kind of people who started in the last year.

[00:49:08] Um, and on our kind of senior group call, we, we were talking about, uh, potentially starting our own podcast. There are some in the presentation design space, they tend to be really focused on more technical aspects and we love talking about the business side. And so we were talking about potentially doing that and we just started going, you know, who are the leaders in, in the presentation design space and going and checking out their websites.

[00:49:30] Um, and it was funny, right, because we were looking at it and we’re like, a lot of these, the design isn’t great. And then you ask yourself, is it that their design skills aren’t great? And they’re as they’re established, right? So they. Did your design skills ever have to be great? Is it that you’re so darn busy you didn’t have time to update your portfolio versus those that have sort, have started in the last few years are still kind of tweaking?

[00:49:50] Um, you know, and what leads to that? And then how do you stand out amongst that? Um, and so it, it’s, I think that’s a huge thing just to go and look and see what are other people doing, talking about, um, if you were looking at it from a customer perspective, like what would your perspective be like? Is this person an expert?

[00:50:09] Is this somebody I have to hire? Um, you know, we talk a lot about, and you’re a writer, you know, like will we talk about like having a blog? And your blog does not have to be something you’re writing every day, right? It’s not an s e o blog, it is not a advertising revenue blog. It is an expertise blog. So have some opinions, right?

[00:50:28] Five to a thousand, 500 to a thousand words about them so that your clients can see them and like gain that trust.

[00:50:34] Megan: Would you mind to talk before we get into rapid fire questions? Cause I know we’re getting towards the end of the show. I have so many things I could, I could still ask you, but, um, would you mind to just talk a little bit more about your course?

[00:50:44] I know you were talking about calls, um, so I’m curious how your course works. So maybe like, first off, who’s your course for, and then like what’s the structure of it, how does it work?

[00:50:56] Adrienne Johnston: Sure. Uh, so my course is called Six Figure Presentation Designer. And the whole idea is that there’s, we know that there’s this gap in.

[00:51:06] The space for designers to use PowerPoint. And I mean, it’s, when I say it’s Blue Ocean, I am not joking, like the number of people who get business and clients from other presentation designers because I’ve outgrown this client, or, um, they’re doing a big keynote and it’s 600 slides. And so like, come join me, like help me knock this out in the next two weeks.

[00:51:29] Like it’s super collaborative and even, you know, within our, our student group, we have people, like, we had a, a death in my family earlier this year and I called one of my students and was like, I trust you. Like I’m gonna refer you to this big name client and I need you to take care of it. And he was like, got it.

[00:51:45] And he called me, he is like, I’m going on a golf trip and I got an needy client. Like, can you take it? And there’s never this fear that I’m not gonna get my client back or I’m gonna lose them. Right. It’s so collaborative and it’s like bench strength for the client. So, Um, that’s really huge. But, so it’s really for designers and bringing them in, um, to the space saying, Hey, you’ve already got the design skills.

[00:52:05] Let’s teach you PowerPoint. And then you take those design skills and you use them in this space where we know what we can charge. And again, like I have students that are charging more than me, they joke on the call, they’re like, you’re almost charging as much as I am. But like, you know, like everybody has like their space and like what they wanna do.

[00:52:22] And so I think it’s fantastic. The way we structure the course is, um, we start with your marketing piece, right? We’re a big proponent of seo. We tend as a function of my nature to attract a lot of introverts as well. Um, and I think it’s really appealing the s e o piece. Um, and there’s something like 28,000 keywords.

[00:52:43] There’s some crazy number of keywords and searches for presentation related terms. So we, you know, When I first started the course, I was like, I’m gonna tap the market, right? Like, there’s gonna not be like, they won’t be able to rank or like, and it just still hasn’t, it’s been two years, it hasn’t happened yet.

[00:52:58] And every time I do the math, I’m like, it’s not possible. We go through all about the marketing, right? So like, SEOs the longest piece. And so as unintuitive as it is for a lot of people, before you even start touching PowerPoint, you build your we website seo, optimize it so that that can start to kind of get trust in Google’s eyes.

[00:53:15] And then, um, we teach PowerPoint through building the portfolio, and then we go into, um, client acquisition. Um, we primarily teach, um, LinkedIn. Obviously we teach the s e o piece, but that takes time to ramp up. So we teach LinkedIn messaging, um, and Upwork, I’m, I’m a huge fan of Upwork in that it allows you to really be the one that’s kind of controlling how much visibility you have to clients and you’re making an investment in that platform.

[00:53:44] Um, but there are some amazing people making and presentation design. Um, making really good money on Upwork, um, and getting a lot of clients from there, like making as much as I make, but on, just on Upwork. Um, yeah. And so we go through that. Um, and then it’s all about like client retention. So if you’re not getting, you know, one third of your clients coming back to you, even if it’s six months to a year down the road, something’s off, right?

[00:54:14] Are you communicating as effectively as they need? Um, are, is your design skill not kind of what they expected or your PowerPoint skills where they need to be? And so we’re constantly talking through that because it’s a, it’s a process of continuously growing that business, right? Where you start today is not where you’re gonna end up.

[00:54:30] And so, You know, even challenging myself, right? To be like, oh, I gotta raise my rates. So I went from $50 this year to 50 a slide to 75 of a slide, right? Because one of my students said, she’s like, I’m charging 85 a slide. Well, I guess I should just start throwing this out there. Let’s see what happens. Um, and so it, for all of us, it’s keeping in mind that you know what you permit, you promote, right?

[00:54:55] If I keep a bad client, instead of like saying, Hey, we wrapped this up, I don’t think this is a good fit. Here’s your packaged stuff, best wishes. Um, or again, even just referring it within our community to other students who would be a better fit. Um, So, yeah, it’s, it’s really, I think the community is, what people say ends up being like the best part.

[00:55:14] There was somebody who was struggling to get clients and her SEO hasn’t picked up yet, and she said, I’m really, I need work. Suddenly she had a $10,000 month from referrals within the community, from other people. Were like, I can’t do this. I don’t have time. Um, so it’s just really remarkable kind of what a group of people all kind of working towards the same goal can accomplish.

[00:55:36] Megan: Yeah. It sounds like a great community. Um, and that’s always my favorite part of like the, you know, courses and coaching programs that I’ve taken is like finding one with a good community.

[00:55:48] Adrienne Johnston: Yeah. And I, you know, as an introvert, like I’m really particular, um, And I don’t tend to go to a lot of like calls and other things, but I look forward to those every week.

[00:55:57] It’s my people. Yeah. My little fellow introverts. Yeah. Nice. Who care about PowerPoint.

[00:56:05] Megan: Right. Well I do wanna take you through some rapid fire questions just to wrap up the call. Are you game for that?

[00:56:13] Adrienne Johnston: Absolutely.

Rapid Fire Questions

[00:56:14] Megan: First rapid fire question that I have for you is, what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you’ve ever made in your business?

[00:56:22] And it could be an investment of money, time, energy, or anything.

[00:56:28] Adrienne Johnston: A hundred percent the SEO aspect. Yeah. Um, and that was a financial cost and investment and, and a course, but it was obvious time too to take it, implement it, and then it’s a continuous kind of maintenance thing that doesn’t necessarily require a ton of time, but I can’t imagine where my business would be without it.

[00:56:43] Like it wouldn’t be where it’s today. Do you mind if I ask what the course was that you took? Oh sure. It was, um, the Stupid Simple SEO course by, I still go my Mike Pearson. Yeah. He was using a, a pseudonym though I can never remember his actual real name now that he’s left his job. Oh. But yeah. Great. And I bought his niche side academy too.

[00:57:07] I mean, his content is always incredible and mm-hmm. Really, when I was building my course, I was all about, like, I loved his courses and, um, Caitlin Cher’s programs, they’re very actionable and that’s how I approach it as well. Like, yeah. This is a checklist of things we’re doing. This is not just knowledge, this is execution.

[00:57:26] Mm-hmm. Because you can, you can absorb all this content and never do anything with it. So that’s not right. Gonna get you anywhere.

[00:57:33] Megan: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, definitely very familiar with Mike’s work. I think, uh, I think Ben and Jeff of Dollar Sprout, uh, bought his course, like just to support him when he first started, like when he first launched the course or something.

[00:57:46] Um, yeah. And that’s a great community too. Stupid, simple seo that community is great as well.

[00:57:51] Adrienne Johnston: Absolutely. Yeah. Everybody’s collaborative and just helping each other. Yeah. Just outta the goodness of their hearts, you know?

[00:57:59] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Um, okay, second question for you is, in the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life and or your business?

[00:58:13] Adrienne Johnston: Um, you know, I, it would say it’s really revolves around this idea that you don’t have to be an extrovert to be successful or a salesperson. Mm-hmm. And I really thought that, you know, that was gonna be a reason I might fail. And so finding a way to make it work for me, um, as a non salesperson, as a non extrovert was just mind bending and still something that, like I’m, I talk about all the time because I just think there must be so many other people out there just like me or like, oh, but I’m not a salesperson, or I’m not an extrovert, or I don’t like networking, and so I can’t be a business owner.

[00:58:48] And that’s really not the case at all. You just have to find a way to market yourself that’s gonna work for you.

[00:58:54] Megan: Yeah. Awesome. And last, uh, rapid fire question I have for you is, what advice do you have for someone who’s just getting started or maybe toying with the idea of starting a business?

[00:59:08] Adrienne Johnston: I think it goes back to what we were talking about earlier, that you’re just, it’s a journey.

[00:59:12] Just go try something, you have an idea, go do it. Right? Like, don’t buy the highest end course, like, but like get some resources to help you and just try it out and see what happens. There’s been nothing in hindsight that like when I look back on my career, hasn’t got help get me here. Right? I learned something, I figured something out.

[00:59:32] Like even uh, the wealth management firm that I worked at, it was very, you know, finance heavy and all of that. One, I learned a lot about my own retirement, what I to do, and got myself a financial advisor for the first time. Cause I was always like cons concerned about the Bernie Madoffs. I didn’t understand all the backend stuff that happens to prevent me from getting robbed.

[00:59:50] So I just didn’t have an advisor. I just had stuff sitting in mutual funds. Um, So, you know, there’s that. But there was even just like, I learned so much about marketing and client service in that environment that I hadn’t picked up before. And I did a lot of design work there. Like I did video for the first time with that company.

[01:00:06] So, Hmm. Every single thing that you do, um, just try it. You’ll learn something. Um, each new job. Um, but don’t be afraid to start, you know, just an action. Taking action. Yeah. Thinking about it isn’t gonna get you anywhere. So just put up a website. Yeah. It started. Just change it. Yeah. Can always change it later.

[01:00:30] I like when I did my website, I don’t know what this is gonna be, so it’s gonna be adrian johnston.com and even today I say like, if I just decided to switch everything tomorrow, right. I could be something totally different. Like, there’s a lot of fluidity in, in being able to approach it. Yeah, that wasn’t a rapid fire answer.

[01:00:46] I’m sorry.

[01:00:47] Megan: No, no, you’re fine. These, I say rapid fire, but I’m like still experimenting with this part of the show. Last season I called it the slow round intentionally because like I’m never rapid, like these end up being sometimes like the same length as the rest of the episode. So they’re not true rapid fire questions, don’t worry, you’re in good company.

[01:01:12] Um, okay. Awesome. Well thank you so much, Adrian. Where can people find you?

[01:01:20] Adrienne Johnston: Uh, yeah, so I have links to all of my free resources on designing and thriving.com. Um, and then my freelance website is adri johnston.com.

[01:01:31] Megan: Awesome. Well thank you so much for being here. It has been a pleasure having you on the

[01:01:35] show.

[01:01:36] Adrienne Johnston: Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I think this is by far the best podcast I’ve ever done. Like it just came so naturally for Kindred spirit.

Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may include typos.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dollar Sprout Podcast, where it’s all about building a business that offers consistent income and flexibility so you can live life on your terms. And now your host, Megan Robinson.

Introduction

[00:00:18] Megan: Welcome back to the Dollar Sprout podcast. Thanks so much for being here with us today. Our guest today is Jenny Weg. Jenny is a full-time mom and social media manager, and today we talk about really the experience of going through different seasons in your business. Jenny has been a full-time freelancer.

[00:00:40] There have been times in her business where that supported her full-time. There have been times in her business where her course, which you’ll hear more about in this episode, has supported her business full-time. And um, now she’s in a season where she’s gone back to a full-time corporate job and she’s using her business.

[00:00:59] More really supplemental income for her family, for her and her husband and their three kids. And this was just a really good conversation, a really great reminder that there’s really no such thing for most people, a linear business journey doesn’t exist. It’s all about the hills and valleys and. That’s okay.

[00:01:20] It, your business journey doesn’t have to be a completely, you know, straightforward or, you know, straight up all the way sort of experience. Um, that hasn’t been the case with myself and that also hasn’t been Jenny’s experience. So I’m excited for you to hear her talk about what that’s been like for her business.

[00:01:39] You’ll hear about how she got her first ever freelancing client in this. And she also talks about some tips for networking and getting referrals, why she decided to go back to a full-time job and use her business as supplemental income. She also talks about how much profit her business makes per month now that she’s only doing it part-time, and I think she said only working about.

[00:02:03] Five hours a month. Is that what she said? I can’t remember. You’ll just have to listen to the episode for that. Um, but she is definitely doing it part-time and you’ll hear about how she made $20,000 with her first ever course launch with no training and no prior experience, which is just crazy to me. I mean, she did a lot of things right and you’ll get to hear all about that.

[00:02:29] So, without further ado, please welcome Jenny.

Interview

[00:02:33] Jenny Weg: Hi, Megan. It’s great to be here.

[00:02:35] Megan: Yeah, really excited to have you. Um, would you mind to just start out by telling everybody listening what your business is? So what products and services do you sell? Who is your business for? Um, and then upfront, if you don’t mind, to share, um, what your current revenue looks like.

[00:02:55] Jenny Weg: Yeah, you bet. So what my business looks like for me, there’s a lot of different avenues to it, actually. Um, it started out with me just being a freelance social media manager, and as I started doing that, I had so many people, especially local people, um, also some people reach out to me and say, how are you doing what you’re doing?

[00:03:11] You know, how do you get extra income working from home, having those flexible hours? Um, a lot of the people that I correlate with are other. And they’re saying, you know, how are you making this money while being a mom, while your kids are home? Mm-hmm. Um, and what, what does that look like for you? So at that point, I realized that there was an avenue for me to take where I could create a course and teach other moms how to do the exact same thing that I was doing.

[00:03:34] Just like the course that I took that got me started doing social media management. So I started that course back in 2018. Um, and that’s still available today. And then I also do freelance social media work for myself, for other clients. Um, and that mainly looks like doing like Pinterest management services for those people, um, which is something that I just have found that I really, really enjoy.

[00:03:57] So currently right now, my course brings in anywhere from a thousand to $1,500 a month for me, and my freelancing brings in about a thousand dollars a month as well.

[00:04:07] Megan: Very cool. Awesome. Thank you for sharing. Um, yeah. I love, uh, love that you’ve tried some different things. I’ve done the same thing in my business, you know, from freelancing to trying courses and, um, it’s all a dance of like figuring out what works.

[00:04:26] And so, um, yeah. So you said about a thousand to 1500 a month from your course, and then about a thousand a month from freelancing right now. Um, how much of. How much of that is profit? How much of that is your, um, or, I’m sorry, like personal income paid by the business, if you don’t mind sharing.

[00:04:48] Jenny Weg: Yeah, you bet.

[00:04:48] So right now I pack at about $1,500 a month. I put away a thousand dollars a month for taxes, for extra expenses. Mm-hmm. And my subscriptions, things like that. And that $1,500 a month is just kinda like a little bit of fun money for. Yeah, in addition, my time job. So it’s just nice to have that extra money for, you know, vacations or extra things that our family wants to do, and just to have it as you know, that extra additional income.

[00:05:13] Megan: Yeah. And $1,500 a month and like additional income, like, you know, just free spending money or vacations is like no joke. So, um, oh, without a doubt. Yeah. That’s great money to be stocking away every month from your business. Yeah. Um, what does it look like for you to make that $1,500 extra a month? How much time are you putting into your business at this point?

[00:05:41] Jenny Weg: So my course is fairly on autopilot. You know, I do a little bit of maintenance things with the course, a little bit of promotion of the course, um, you know, through publishing on Pinterest, on their social media platforms. But as far as like building the course, all that dirty work is done already for me.

[00:05:55] So that’s just kinda my autopilot. And as far as my freelance work goes, it only takes me about five hours a month to do my freelancing work. So sometimes it looks like sitting down on a Sunday afternoon and pounding it all up at once, or kind of spacing it out throughout the month. An hour here or there in the evenings.

[00:06:12] Megan: Hmm. Very cool. Awesome. So I know your business has kind of taken a a few different turns and is not exactly. Where it is not exactly today where it was when you started, of course. Um, so what did that look like when you were first starting your business? What gave you the idea to do social media management and what, what was the, what was the before picture?

[00:06:41] What were you doing before you started this and why did you.

[00:06:45] Jenny Weg: So when I started social media management, it was actually when I was pregnant with my first child, and I, in the worst way, did not wanna have to go back to work after maternity leave. And so when I was six months pregnant, I took my first course.

[00:06:57] Within a month, I had landed a client and I thought, okay, this is perfect. I had about six months of three months being pregnant, three months of maternity leave. So I thought in that time, I’m going to build this to match my full-time income. I’m gonna leave my job, and it did not happen. So how it looked for me was at that point I was making about $1,200 a month, which was not matching my full-time income.

[00:07:18] My husband said, there’s no way you can quit your job. So I sent the baby to daycare, and it was really the best thing that ever happened to both of us. She got acclimated to daycare. I continued pushing super hard in my business to get to that point. When she was 18 months old, I had built a business to where I was bringing in almost $6,000 a month.

[00:07:39] Wow. And I was able to leave my full-time job and stay at home with her. And I quickly, quickly realized that working full-time from home with her all the time was not sustainable either. Mm. Yeah. So a lot of just learning as we went. So we were able to find part-time daycare, and that was a really, really great balance to where I could still feel fulfilled in my.

[00:08:02] And be a hundred percent focused on my work when I was working, and a hundred percent focused with her when I was with her. So I was only working about 15 to 20 hours a week at that point to make that $6,000 a month, which was a really, really good balance. Wow. Yeah. Um, And as things went on, we had a second baby and we were able to get full-time daycare again, which was something that I felt like I needed, um, for myself just to kind of have that escape a little bit.

[00:08:32] And so with the addition of full-time daycare, I was able to join with an agency and do agency work and then also keep my freelance on the site so I could scale back and just work for the freelance clients that I absolutely love. And I’ve had super long relationships with. And kind of have that as just more of my fun side hobby again, and then also do the digital strategy yet within the agency, but have a little more stability with the agency side of things.

[00:08:57] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. I’ve done the same thing in my business. I think I started my like L l C for my business in 2017. Um, and. You know, I don’t have a family, I don’t have kids, but I knew that I wanted to start this business and it was so much back and forth. Um, I originally went into it full-time thinking like, I have enough savings to where I’m gonna figure this out.

[00:09:22] Same, kind of similar to what you said. I’m gonna figure this out in like six months and I’ll be good to go. But I ended up like living off my savings for a year and then eventually being. Okay. I should probably, you know, I was making money in the business, but not enough. And so, yeah, I think my journey has also been, um, full-time in the business and then back to like working a full-time job and doing the business on the side.

[00:09:50] And, um, yeah, it’s just, it’s been nice to have the business there for additional income. During those times when I’m like working full-time. Um, and also, yeah, just nice to, nice to know that you have that option kind of. So, um, it’s funny, the journey of like, Entrepreneurship.

[00:10:12] Jenny Weg: It’s so true. And you know, if you had told me, you know, even five years ago that it would be so back and forth, um, I think like a lot of times you hear these stories of people who just dive in and all of a sudden it scales super fast.

[00:10:22] Right? And that’s great that it happens, but it’s always nice to have that diversification of, you know, there’s times where the course has really sustained me. And there’s times where the freelancers really sustained me. Um, and my time commitment to both of them have been different at grade points in time in that, so it’s just really interesting to see how it ebbs and flow.

[00:10:42] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. And with that, what was, if you don’t mind sharing, what was your motivation or what really drove the decision to kind of go back and, you know, work for another company at this point? Because I think you said you’ve been doing that. For a few months now. Is that right?

[00:11:00] Jenny Weg: Yep. So I’ve been back with an agency now since July, and honestly, it came down to I really needed some adult conversation in my life.

[00:11:08] Um, I, my clients frequently, um, but a lot of that communications over email and I just miss the culture of being around people. And even now I’m only in the office, you know, a couple times a month, but just knowing that I have that. Kind of escape and that I’m gonna be able to collaborate and mm-hmm. Work with other people during that time.

[00:11:29] Um, really, really feels good. And I, I check in weekly with the team, um, where we have a lot of team meetings and those are all over Zoom if I can’t make it to the office. But we still get that human interaction without having to just have my little people around all the time.

[00:11:43] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Honestly, I l again, I don’t have kids.

[00:11:48] I can’t imagine. Um, but I still. Like, I work from home all the time, and sometimes I’ll just go to coffee shops and hope a random stranger strikes up a conversation with me because I’m like, I never get to talk to anybody. Um, yep. Yeah. So I understand. Yeah. Um, so I wanna go back to sort of the beginning of your business again.

[00:12:11] Um, what made you choose social media management as you know, the thing that you wanted to do for your business?

[00:12:22] Jenny Weg: So in 2015, actually I started a blog just as a hobby. Um, and it was just something, I’ve always been a writer, I’d love to write and so I had already kinda had a little bit of experience, you know, building a website on the backend or promoting a blog, and that was all just for fun and, you know, kind of helping.

[00:12:39] And even in 2015 blogs were still, I mean, they aren’t what they are today. So it was just something that I was like, I have the expertise in this area. I know what I’m doing here and I can help other people do the same. So when you had somebody who was like, you know, I wanna have a blog too, but I just don’t know how to build a blog.

[00:12:55] You know, I could go in and design a website for them and have it ready to go, or they’d say, I already have an established blog and I love doing the writing part, but I just don’t wanna do the social media side of things. It does not bring me joy. It’s not something that I really enjoy devoting my time to, I know it’s my time is better spent just writing, so then I could just kinda hop in and help them out with that as well.

[00:13:14] Mm-hmm. Um, and so it’s just been a really, really. Balance for me to be able to help other people and be fulfilled in what I’m doing. Um, because honestly, I had zero education in marketing in, um, especially digital marketing. I graduated high school in 2010 before digital marketing was actually a thing.

[00:13:32] Hmm. So it’s just been a really, really good, um, transition for me into the digital world.

[00:13:38] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So how were you getting, when you first started your business, how were you getting those first few clients? Were they like people who were finding your blog and your website, or were you doing cold outreach?

[00:13:53] How did you make like your first few dollars there?

[00:13:58] Jenny Weg: So my, as soon as I finished that course that I had took on social media management, I randomly saw a blog that I was filing. She had posted, she was looking for a virtual assistant, is how she had listed it. Hmm. And I reached out to her and she hired me.

[00:14:13] And my first paycheck from her was $135. And I felt like I had won the lottery, like I had booked a client. Getting paid. Um, and I still, to this day, I still talk with her frequently. She actually doesn’t do blogging anymore. And that’s what’s been really beautiful too. I’ve seen a lot of other businesses that have evolved and changed.

[00:14:32] Mm-hmm. Um, but still have been able to maintain a really, really great relationship with them. Um, in fact, I even worked with Benette for a while when they worked with their pinch working on their Pinterest services. Um, yeah. And still to say, you know, I love seeing Ben’s kids on Facebook, and it’s, mm-hmm.

[00:14:47] It’s been a really relationship thing to watch those relationships evolve, even when it’s not a working relationship anymore. Yeah. So after I wanted the first client, um, almost 90% of my clients after that came from networking and. Um, there was maybe one or two other ones that I had reached out when I was really trying to scale and I landed on a cold pitch, but after that it was all word, mouth and, um, just building up with people they had connected with or people that they knew needed services.

[00:15:18] And I did always offer a referral discount, so if they referred me to somebody else, I gave them $50 off their monthly package. Oh, nice. Um, for the entire time that I worked with those people. So there was always a little bit of incentive for them to refer me as.

[00:15:31] Megan: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s always, yeah, that’s always a nice motivation to get extra referrals, offering some sort of incentive.

[00:15:41] Um, when you say networking, do you mean like did you join any local networking groups? I know when I first started doing financial coaching, there was, oh, I can’t even remember. What is the name of, it’s like a really common, uh, business networking group that has like local. Branches everywhere. I don’t know.

[00:16:02] Did you join anything like that or were you going to conferences or just like messaging people?

[00:16:10] Jenny Weg: So a lot of my networking, I live in a very, very rural, rural area. I live in Iowa. Mm-hmm. And um, actually when our internet catching is little unstable. We get unstable internet anytime that the corn gets too tall, that it interferes with our signal.

[00:16:26] That’s so funny. I mean, our hometown has like 2000 people. It’s very, very small. So I didn’t have any book groups to connect with, but most of it was all through blocking groups online. Um, and different places that I connect with people, if it was other people who had taken the same courses as me. Mm-hmm.

[00:16:42] You know, it seemed like we were always into a Facebook group and there’s always somebody saying, you know, I need help with this, or, my expertise is in Facebook and I need help with Pinterest services. Is there somebody who can help me with that? So it was just a really good way to collaborate and build and expand my network.

[00:16:56] Megan: Yeah. So were you like when you were in these groups? I’m always interested in how people like do networking cuz I’m so bad at it. I feel like it’s the hardest thing for me, you know? Um, so when you were in these groups, were you just like responding to people and being helpful or were you like, you know, I don’t know.

[00:17:14] What did that look like?

[00:17:17] Jenny Weg: Without a doubt. So if people would ask questions, and a lot of times it wasn’t even specifically blogging groups, it would just be somebody had posted and said, you know, I tried to do this on Pinterest, it didn’t work, and I just share my expertise. You know, give out free advice.

[00:17:29] Um, and they’d come back and say, wow, like, how do you know how to do this? And at that point I’d say, well, you know, this is what I do for a living. You know, I help people with Pinterest. And then that would kind of open the conversation for, mm-hmm oh, maybe I should look into pursuing this because I can’t dedicate time to it myself.

[00:17:43] So that was just, I always free information. I and networking group is a great place to give free information. It’s a free, a great place to get free information. You know, those same people were returning the favor to me when I had questions on platforms that I wasn’t familiar. So always just looking at ways to be helpful before ways to be salesy.

[00:18:01] Megan: Hmm.

[00:18:05] Yeah. Um, yeah, and that makes a lot of sense. I, uh, Yeah, I should probably do more of that in my own business. Networking is so hard, though. It feels so time consuming. Um, but it, it pays off, um, is what I keep hearing again and again. It pays off. Um, that’s great.

[00:18:25] Jenny Weg: It was super helpful for me. What I really did is I just try to sit down for maybe about 15 to 30 minutes in the morning just to kinda review the groups that I was a part of.

[00:18:33] Mm-hmm. Out time, you know, to find the groups that I found were actually really engaging and helpful. Um, and then just kind of go through the questions that people had posted during the day and that, you know, 15 to 30 minutes instead of waiting for every notification to pop up that oh, so and so posted in this group or whatnot.

[00:18:49] Just taking that really dedicated time to focus in on those, review the stuff that I’ve been posted the past day, interject where I could, um, and then move on for the day and I have to go back to it.

[00:18:58] Megan: Yeah. Are Facebook groups still a good place for that, do you think?

[00:19:05] Jenny Weg: I, I go back and forth. It really depends on who you have in the Facebook group and the quality of people. I think people’s loyalty to Facebook groups have really changed lately, and I’ve seen even some more, uh, like apps being created more so where people are leaving the social platforms, where they’re mm-hmm.

[00:19:26] More so controlled to where they can have their own freedoms. So if you have groups like that where it is an app or more of like a, a group you would join in that way, those. Probably a little bit more effective. Um, but when you just get started, I really do Facebook groups. Yeah.

[00:19:43] Megan: Yeah. Is, is that still something that you do today or how do you get most of your clients or your work today?

[00:19:49] Or do you mostly just work with the same consistent clients and you’re not taking on any new work?

[00:19:56] Jenny Weg: Yep. So since I’ve started working with the agency, I, with the balance that I have right now between three kids, my agency work, and the freelance work that I do, I’m not looking to scale in this season. You know, there might come a time where all three of my kids are in school and I have ample amount of time and I’m looking to fill that space.

[00:20:13] But right where I’m at right now, my clients are so loyal to me. I haven’t had a lot of turnover with clients, so I’m not having to go out and find those clients again. Yeah.

[00:20:24] Megan: Yeah. And that makes a lot of sense. For the season that you said you’re in right now, um, are you still doing. Like, I know you mentioned Pinterest, uh, like you started out, I think doing Pinterest, social media management.

[00:20:38] Is that still kind of your specialization?

[00:20:41] Jenny Weg: It is. And actually that has really evolved since I started doing Pinterest. So originally Pinterest was just a traffic driver to get people to websites. And it was actually after I started doing Pinterest services that Pinterest went public, meaning they started offering advertising.

[00:20:56] So Pinterest ads were completely new, um, which was actually a really, really great boost for my business because I was willing to become educated in Pinterest ads, and people who had a good grip on Pinterest didn’t have a good grip on Pinterest ads. So even if they could manage their own Pinterest account, they couldn’t create the ads and get the same revenue.

[00:21:15] So it was kind of a good turning point for me to really become specialized in something very, very specific and be able to be that expert and help people.

[00:21:27] Megan: Very cool. Is that still, um, like I know you’re right, Pinterest has changed so much over time and I hear bloggers say it over and over again because there was like, you know, the golden days of Pinterest where uh, it was just so much easier for bloggers to like be on Pinterest and drive a ton of traffic to their blogs.

[00:21:47] Um, so I guess, would you say today that it’s still Pinterest management is still a strong market? For people who are listening who maybe wanna start that as a business or a side hustle?

[00:22:00] Jenny Weg: Without a doubt. So the shift that I’ve really seen in Pinterest is instead of it driving people to a blog, it’s driving people to products.

[00:22:10] Mm. And so, especially in a world where we have so many digital products, or even for online shopping, I mean, online shopping is huge and you don’t even notice it as a consumer, I don’t think, when you’re scrolling Pinterest, but there’s so many products, interject. And those are mostly all Pinterest ads. Um, and so that’s definitely the market that I’ve seen and the shift in the industry.

[00:22:32] Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, I know like nothing about Pinterest ads. Well, and my freelance clients, especially that I’m working on with Pinterest, they have physical products that are products that are shipped and the return that they get on Pinterest is so much more than what they get on Instagram. Mm. Um, and Instagram is just such an infiltrated market, I feel, and there’s so many ads on Instagram cuz they were there first.

[00:22:59] Whereas Pinterest is kind of this new land with the ads. So it’s, it’s been an interesting.

[00:23:05] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Was there ever a time in your business that you offered something other than Pinterest management or, um, have you ever had any products or services that you tried out that were just like a total flop?

[00:23:20] Jenny Weg: So when I first started, I was, I had the mentality of I will do anything for anybody, anytime. Like I want clients. I, whatever job you give me, I will do. Um, and I remember one time I was working for a network marketer and what she wanted me to do as a virtual assistant was go through in cold message people on, like, if they had liked to post on her page, I had to take a script that she had and message them.

[00:23:44] And it was the most unfulfilling thing I have ever done in my life, and I didn’t. Mm-hmm. Think about it. And it was just one of those things that I like, this is not, what is it for me? Um, and that was when I really shifted my mind from thinking of things as a virtual assistant and more so a social media manager.

[00:24:03] Hmm. Um, and just saying, you know, I will come to you and this is what I offer and this is what I see. Like big picture strategy for your page. You know, it might not just be, I’m gonna come in and do posts for you every month, or I’m gonna come in and do this. I’ll do what you tell me what you’re doing.

[00:24:17] I’ll just do it. I would come to them as the expert and say, this is what I see you’re doing. I could be more effective if we did it this way. Um, I’m presenting myself that way. Just gave me a little bit more credibility as well instead of just saying, I’m here. Tell me what you want me to do and I will do it.

[00:24:33] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. I think. That was true of me when I first started my business and I first started freelancing too. I would do anything that you would pay me for. Um, some things I had no business doing whatsoever, like mucking in people’s website code thinking I was a web developer after I took like two online courses or something.

[00:24:54] Um, nobody’s a website ever failed. Don’t worry about that. Um, but, but yeah, I think that was such an important thing for me to go through. And I think a lot of people go through as like trying out a ton of different stuff to see what you enjoy, what you’re good at, and also like what’s in demand, um, and kind of finding the sweet spot there.

[00:25:16] Um, and speaking of sweet spot, I wanna talk about you coming to the decision to create your course. I know you said that, um, you had.

[00:25:29] A ton of people who were coming to you and asking how you were doing this, how you were making extra money while you had kids at home and all of this. Um, so that makes sense as to why you started your course.

[00:25:41] Um, had you ever done anything like that before though? Had you ever created a course or what was that learning curve like for you to launch that?

[00:25:52] Jenny Weg: Yeah, so I had been referring people to the course that I had taken, and there was a 10% affiliate commission for that. So every time I referred somebody, I was making, you know, 30 to $40 for them going to sign up and take that course.

[00:26:04] And it just kind of hit me like, wait a minute, you know? I have the expertise here, why don’t I create my own course platform and I can share it with them. So I did a lot of research on where I was gonna build my course, um, what platform to use. I ended up going with Teachable, and I spent, it was about three months, uh, creating my course.

[00:26:23] And at that time, looking back like hindsight, 2020. The way that I could have done it could have been probably a lot more efficient. But I started promoting my course before it was even built. Mm-hmm. I started building a list of people. I was, I was gonna say, this course is coming and it really, really helped in my launch, I didn’t really realize at the time that it was a launch strategy, but it really, really helped.

[00:26:45] The week that I launched my course, I had, um, list of like super engaged people that were just waiting to buy this course because I’d been talking. Um, and it’s been just such a beautiful thing to see, you know, that first group of people that actually took the course. It was in 2018 when I launched that.

[00:27:01] Um, I still talk to a lot of them today and one of ’em actually just reached out to me this summer and she’s in a totally different season of life than me. Her kids are grown. Um, high school, college age. One of her daughters just got engaged and he’s getting married, and she said, you know, when I started taking a course, it was to help pay for my college.

[00:27:17] Or my kids’ college education and now we’re helping pay for our daughter’s wedding with it. And it’s just been so like full circle for me to think, you know, my life 10, 15, 20 years down the road, what that’s gonna look like. And that, you know, it’s not just for a young mom who wants to stay at home after maternity leave, it’s for a mom who has other commitments with her kids who are older as well.

[00:27:39] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. So you were doing this launch strategy that you didn’t know you were doing, um, and you said it paid off. How did it pay off, or what did your first course launch look like?

[00:27:53] Jenny Weg: Uh, So my husband and I actually made a little bit of a deal, and not that we like to gamble against each other, I guess.

[00:28:00] And he had told me, he goes, I, for the longest time I wanted this minivan. And he had like this huge ego issue with mini minivans. He mm-hmm. Was not gonna be a minivan dad. He was not gonna own a minivan. And I wanted that north, the sliding doors, like the convenience of everything was just my dream. Yeah.

[00:28:18] And so at this time, we had one child, And I told him, he said, you know how, how much money do you think you’re gonna make on this course? And I said, well, my goal for the time, I have invested into it so far. When I launched this course, I’m hoping to make $5,000. And he said, okay. He goes, if you hit that $5,000 mark, we will go and look at it.

[00:28:38] And at that point it was just, we are just gonna go and look at one. You’re not gonna buy one. But we’ll go and look at a minivan. Mm-hmm. And so my first month of launching that course, I made $20,000. And I mean, I, I, myself surprised myself, I couldn’t believe it did that well. And so, needless to say, we went to the dealership and the same day that we went to the dealership, they took Coleman a minivan.

[00:28:59] And the minivan is still here today. Four years later, three kids later, and it has been a very, very good minivan.

[00:29:06] Megan: That is amazing. Yeah. A goal of $5,000 and you made $20,000 on your first launch. You really blew that one outta the park.

[00:29:17] Jenny Weg: It totally, totally shocked me. And like I said, you know, that was a season where my freelancing, I was only working for a couple of clients cause I had little, little kids at home and I could do extra client work.

[00:29:27] So having that course as another avenue of revenue was just huge for us at that time.

[00:29:33] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. That’s amazing. So, Did you, I forget if you said, did you have any like courses you were taking on, like how to launch a course or was there anything, did you just kind of figure it out all out on your own?

[00:29:49] Jenny Weg: I did.

[00:29:50] So I’ve kind of done it backwards actually in 2021 I took a course on course launching. Mm-hmm. Um, and kinda more evergreen course launching. So it’s not constant hyping up and doing the course, launching all the time yourself. But I do always kind of wonder. How different it would have been if I had gone into it with a course launch strategy or preparing myself before I just jumped in and did it myself.

[00:30:13] I mean, I was very, very happy with my results, no doubt. But I kind of wonder if it would’ve scaled in a different way if I had set it up with the knowledge that I have now.

[00:30:24] Megan: Yeah. What, is there anything that you can think of off the top of your head that you might have done differently?

[00:30:31] Jenny Weg: Oh boy. I mean, I think more than anything building my email list would’ve been mm-hmm.

[00:30:36] A higher priority to me. Um, I know when I’m signing up for courses, it comes after I have received the boatload of emails from that person that I’ve really built more of a relationship with. It’s not because I saw it on their social channels, it’s because mm-hmm. They’ve been emailing me, they’ve been keeping me updated, and they’ve really been cultivating that relat.

[00:30:55] Um, and having that list that they have to be able to do that. So I definitely think email list building would have been more of a priority for me.

[00:31:03] Megan: Yeah. Gotcha. That’s still amazing though, like $20,000 four times what you were hoping for at, you know, your best. That’s incredible. Yeah.

[00:31:15] Jenny Weg: Um, so, and actually just for about a three month time investment, it took me about three months to build a budget.

[00:31:20] Oh wow. And it’s hard to say how much time I spent in that three months. It was, you know, after the kid got the vet night and working on things like that. So it was just really a, it’s hard for me to put down like what I made hourly doing that, but it was really, really fulfilling for me at that point time in my life too.

[00:31:37] Megan: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, so if there are people out there right now who are hearing your story and are like, you know, this sounds amazing, I would love to. A side hustle or like start playing around with the idea of, uh, doing social media management and getting paid for it. Um, what tips or advice or first steps would you offer them?

[00:32:04] Jenny Weg: So the biggest thing for me was I just did not give myself another option. Um, I was, I was going to do this and it was going to, I know that’s not a theory or a strategy that’s gonna work all the time. There’s been times in my life too where I have that strategy and things have flopped, but I kinda felt like I had my backup with him.

[00:32:23] So Wall with, you know, a timeline on maternity leave and I was kind of put forth as much effort as I possibly could to make this work. And so just kind of blindly jumping into it, and I don’t know, maybe the faith that I had when I was 25 years old has been more than what I had now. Or more of the confidence, but just going into it and saying, you know, knowing that you are capable to do it.

[00:32:44] There are so many online resources out there. If there is ever a question, I can’t tell you how many tasks that I’ve been given from a client that I have YouTubed my way through because I was unsure, right? Complete it, but I figured it out every single time. Just knowing that there’s free resources, there’s paid resources, there’s things you can invest in.

[00:33:02] And like I said, with the networking, there are so many people out there that want to help as well, and that are experts and they’re willing to. Give that information out. So getting in with the right people, putting over time and just knowing that it’s a very, very real thing today. Um, like I said, you know, living in rural Iowa, I even feel like when I’m out and about in town, I mean, it’s a very, very small community.

[00:33:23] So you know a lot of people, and if I try to explain to them what I’m doing, It doesn’t even seem really credible to a lot of people, but knowing that the online space is huge and it is just going to continue to grow, yeah. Um, with this for four years is even astonishing. So knowing what 5, 10, 15 years down the road looks like, And just knowing that the possibilities that are there to continue to grow is, is really, really encouraging.

[00:33:49] Megan: Yeah. Do you have any stories, um, of maybe when you bit off something that was a little more than you could chew in terms of like something that you, uh, like you were saying, a task that a client gave you that you were like, oh yeah, I can do this, and then you started to do it and you were like, oh, oh, no.

[00:34:11] Jenny Weg: So actually Ben and Jeff, when you’re listening, cover your ears. They were one of my very, very first Pinterest clients, and my knowledge on Pinterest was very, very base level. I mean, it was like I was a current blogger using Pinterest myself. Yeah, not even in the most effective way. I’d actually taken their course on Pinterest.

[00:34:31] Um, and so I started working with them and their account was huge. It was so much bigger than what I thought it was gonna be. So at that point in time, it was actually the assistant that I had hired to help me launch my course or with a lot of the backend things on building my course. She had taken a Pinterest course, and so she sat down with me.

[00:34:52] She helped a lot with the work with Ben and Jeff. I also, um, kind of jumped in that then, and she did a lot of the training that I noted on Pinterest, I learned from her. Um, and so it was just really kind of a good, a good way for me to grow in a really fast, uncomfortable way.

[00:35:08] Megan: Oh yeah. Yeah. You’ll definitely grow really quickly when you bite off more than you can chew like that.

[00:35:14] I’ve done the same thing where like, I mean, there’s a difference I think in biting off more than you can chew and just dropping the ball and, you know, screwing people over. Um, Versus like what we’re talking about, which is like biting off more you than you can chew, and like having to really learn and step up to the plate in a big way that you weren’t sure you could do.

[00:35:38] Jenny Weg: So, yeah, and it’s just kinda a really, really great way for growth I found, you know? Mm-hmm. At that time it meant, you know, I was taking on this client, it was this many hours, this is what I was gonna get paid, but I also had to devote extra hours to extra training, extra courses, going out and finding that information.

[00:35:53] And so now I can be a lot more efficient with it. When I take on a Pinterest client, I know I’m not gonna have to relearn all this again. So, mm-hmm. It’s just been a really good, a really good change for me and a good way for me to challenge myself. Yeah.

[00:36:06] Megan: Awesome. Well, before I let you go, I have some rapid fire questions that I would love to go through with you.

[00:36:13] Does that sound.

[00:36:14] Jenny Weg: Yeah, you bet.

Rapid Fire Questions

[00:36:16] Megan: First rapid fire question I have is, what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments that you’ve ever made in your business? And it can be an investment of money, time, energy, anything.

[00:36:29] Jenny Weg: So the best investment that I ever made was, the very first course that I took, it was a $249.

[00:36:38] And at the time it felt a little bit uncomfortable to pay that for an online course. Um, but the mentality that I had was what I paid per credit in college for college credit. And I’m like, okay, I paid more than $249 for every single college credit. Again, I can do this. So I had bought that course in June and by December that course had paid me back 55 times.

[00:37:02] Wow, I figured out. So just getting that start and that was really my start to what my career is today. Um, both agency work and freelance work. So that $249 course compared to my college education was such a better investment for me.

[00:37:18] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. What, what all did that course cover? Was it like how to, was it the, you know, entire how to of like setting up your business, getting clients or what, what was.

[00:37:32] Jenny Weg: It was, so, it was very, very, um, broad on virtual assisting. It kind of lets what you could do with virtual assisting, but definitely started with, okay, are you going to create an LLC for your business? Is your business big enough to do that? Um, how you’re going to invoice clients, how you’re going to find clients, uh, what services you’re gonna offer for those.

[00:37:53] So there was very, very small section on social media management, and that was just what really stuck out to me of what I wanted to do. Cause I felt like I had enough base level knowledge of that. Mm-hmm. So from that course, then I went on to take other courses that were more specialized in social management.

[00:38:08] Yeah. But that was really my first. My first step in just creating my business and knowing that this was where it was gonna take me.

[00:38:15] Megan: Yeah. I’ve talked to people about the idea of like, the difference between, like, there are different times in your business when you need a more general broad course like that versus when you need something that’s more specialized.

[00:38:27] Um, and getting started, I also found it very helpful actually. I think, oh God,

[00:38:32] I’m not, I’m not gonna.

[00:38:35] I spent too much money my first year in courses that were like very specialized in ways that I didn’t need, but I think I could have benefited a lot from like taking one of those broader, more general courses.

[00:38:47] I’m curious if you don’t mind sharing what the course was that you took.

[00:38:52] Jenny Weg: Yeah. At that time that was called Horkey Handbook. I don’t know. Okay. Yeah. Offered today, um, or you’re offered in a different way, but it was 30 days or less virtual system. Um, and it was just, yeah, really, really eye-opening for me.

[00:39:06] Megan: Yeah, yeah. Very familiar with Gina Horkey and all her work and her courses. Um, awesome. So second question I have for people too that, sorry. Sorry, go ahead.

[00:39:19] Jenny Weg: She’s too, that has, she has really, really ebbed and flowed over her business too. I mean, when she first started offering that course, it was, like I said, $249.

[00:39:28] Right. And I know now she’s gotten into even more specialized courses and, um, really scaled her business too. So it’s been interesting to see that.

[00:39:36] Megan: Yeah, it is so fun. Like really just watching people because there are people that I’ve followed for so many years and it, it is interesting seeing how people’s businesses change over time

[00:39:49] Jenny Weg: without a doubt.

[00:39:50] Megan: Yeah. Um, so second question I have for you is, in the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life and or your business?

[00:40:04] Jenny Weg: So for me, the biggest thing is definitely habit wise, knowing that I had to be super, super committed and being ready. To take on anything, any time. Um, for me it was schedule wise, it meant I was a lot of times waking up at four 30 in the morning to get worked up so the kids were awake.

[00:40:23] I had the, that I knew I needed to get tackled for the day. It had to be done before the kids were awake. Cause there was never a guarantee. That I was going to have the time during the day. Um, I worked a lot, a lot of nap times and there was times where I had a four hour nap time and there was times where I had like a, maybe a full hour.

[00:40:40] Mm-hmm. So just knowing that I had that commitment and if it wasn’t done after that, it was staying up until midnight maybe to finish up my work for the day. So yeah, I’m really, really being committed by time and knowing that I had to put time in.

[00:40:51] Megan: Yeah, definitely not an easy thing to do. No waking up at four 30 in the morning.

[00:40:58] Yeah. Um, okay. So last question I have for you is, when you feel overwhelmed or unfocused, you’ve lost your focus temporarily. What do you do to get back on track?

[00:41:13] Jenny Weg: So my biggest thing is I make personal development books. Um, I love, love Mel Robbins. Um, and just knowing that there’s so many people out there that, like you said, your business is gonna have highs and.

[00:41:24] And being able to just kinda read those personal development books just gives me that little bit of boost that I need. Um, to kinda drag me back to why I started in the beginning. You know, I started this so that I had the flexibility to be there when my kids needed me. And so knowing that that’s such a gift that I have and that it’s not time to give up on that.

[00:41:42] Megan: Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing today, Jenny. Um, before we leave, where can people find you and connect with you?

[00:41:51] Jenny Weg: Yeah, you bet. So I’m my Instagram. I’m Mrs. Jenny Weg, and if you’d like more information on the course that I offer, that is www.workfromoma.org. Um, and the course is always open.

[00:42:06] I’ve gone through periods where I’ve, you know, open enrollment and shut enrollment. Um, but I know everybody’s at a different stage at like, at different times. So knowing that it’s just always there if you need it when you’re ready to happen, um, the doors will always be. Awesome.

[00:42:21] Megan: Well, thank you so much for being here today, Jenny.

[00:42:23] This was great.

[00:42:25] Jenny Weg: Yeah, thank you, Megan.

Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may include typos.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dollar Sprout Podcast, where it’s all about building a business that offers consistent income and flexibility so you can live life on your terms. And now your host, Megan Robinson.

Introduction

[00:00:18] Megan: Welcome back to the Dollars Sprout podcast. Thanks so much for joining me today. I’m so excited for you to hear today’s episode with Julie Berninger, who is a blogger, a podcaster, an Etsy seller and co-founder of Gold City Ventures, where she teaches others how to start successful businesses on Etsy selling printables, which.

[00:00:44] Very cool. It’s a very cool episode. It’s something I’ve thought about doing in my own business. Um, I talked in the episode with Whitney Hansen. I talk about, um, or we talk about like just having a bunch of different ideas in a business and wanting to do all kinds of different things all the time. And this is one of those things that I have wanted to do in my business for a long time, selling spreadsheets and printables on Etsy.

[00:01:08] So it was really, really fun getting to dive in and talk to Julie about her. Um, you’ll get to hear a lot of really good nuggets from Julie today, including the number one mindset trap that she says. For most people hold them back when they’re trying to start an Etsy shop or really most online businesses.

[00:01:31] You’ll also hear how she built a strong support community of entrepreneurs in the early days starting out in her business, which I think is such a good idea and something that I’m now looking at doing for my. And, you know, community. Um, so very cool idea there. Um, you’ll get some printable niche ni niches.

[00:01:53] Oh God, I can never, can never decide if I wanna say niche or niche, you’ll get some printable niches that you never would’ve guessed would be profitable, um, or maybe even possible. Um, Julie really opened my ideas in this episode to all of the different. Areas that it’s possible to create principles in.

[00:02:16] Um, and her printable shop is, or started out in the bachelorette space, she started out selling scavenger hunts for bachelorette parties, which like. What I never would’ve thought of that. So you’ll get a lot of really good ideas. Um, we’ll talk about some mindset stuff, and she also shares some really actionable dos and don’ts for starting your Etsy shop.

[00:02:38] A lot of good takeaways in this episode, so be sure to stick around for the whole thing. Please welcome Julie Berninger.

Interview

[00:02:46] Julie Berninger: Thanks for having me.

[00:02:48] Megan: Yeah. Excited to talk to you today. Um, this is a, a business that I used to think about doing. It’s like one of the many businesses that I was interested in, you know, putting together when I first got started out in online business and I never really pursued, but it’s been one of those in the back of my mind.

[00:03:06] That I’ve always been curious about and like had as a project that maybe I would want to start or add on to my business at a later date. So I’m really interested in hearing you talk about your business today. Um, but before I jump into the middle of things, um, can you get us started by telling people what is your business?

[00:03:25] What do you do? Um, what products and services do you offer? For who?

[00:03:31] Julie Berninger: Hi, I’m Julie Berninger. I am the co-founder of Gold City Ventures, and we help people start Etsy printables businesses, their first ever Etsy shop, selling primarily digital products. So that’s a side hustle that I’ve done for a few years now.

[00:03:45] It’s so creative and fun, like you said. It’s really a really good thing for me to kind of get that creative outlet at the end of the day, but that has sort of morphed into this bigger business for me. Gold City Ventures, where. I took all of the tips and tricks that I’ve learned over the years and then consolidated that into a course called E Principles, and that’s my main job now.

[00:04:06] Megan: Awesome. Very cool. Um, so I do want to talk about where your business is now, and usually I do start with that upfront. I like to ask a lot of questions and you were very open and what you said you’re willing to share on the podcast. Um, but I. I would love to hear more before we get into that, cuz you have built this business of like, you had your own Etsy shop and now you teach other people how to like, create their own Etsy shop and be successful with that.

[00:04:35] Um, and I would love to talk more about like, what was your first Etsy shop like what, how did you get started in your business even before that? What were you doing before you knew Etsy was a thing?

[00:04:50] Julie Berninger: Sure. So I used to work in tech in a typical nine to five office job, and I had just moved out to Silicon Valley and gotten a big tech job.

[00:04:57] But even though I was achieving my corporate goal, career success that I wanted, I felt like there was another part of me that always knew I was meant to be an entrepreneur and the way that I. Explored that was by listening to podcasts on my lunch break and when I was commuting to and from work. And I heard a podcast about someone that started an Etsy shop and they had started their Etsy shop selling very inexpensive to manufacture items.

[00:05:22] And that sort of lit a light bulb in my head of, okay, I’m gonna start a shop that. Doesn’t cost that much inventory to get started. Now, I didn’t think of digital products right away. I actually sold temporary tattoos and they were a great business because they were so cheap to buy. So I could buy hundreds for not that much money.

[00:05:39] And I made the designs myself and I niched them down to the bachelorette party space because at the time I was in my twenties, I’m in my thirties now. I was going to tons of bachelorette party events and for anyone who’s ever attended one. You have to shell out a lot of money to the maid of honor and the whole bridal party for do dads that are one night only and you’re never gonna wear them again or use them again.

[00:05:59] And getting started with a business that had a high profit margin like that. Like people pay a lot of money, they buy them in large groups. Usually there’s 15 or 20 women who are attending these events. Then it seemed like a good niche to get into, so I was doing that. On top of my day job, but shipping and worrying about inventory, like I made a couple bad design choices.

[00:06:18] So I still to this day have a couple hundred raunchy bachelorette party tattoos that no one’s ever gonna use in my closet. But I was, I was onto some things doing it right, but I didn’t do the whole package right. And that’s where I met someone that sells digital products on Etsy. And once I switched my shop to be a digital product shop where I sold bachelorette party scavenger hunts, then I felt like it was a perfect blend of, yes, this is a really good side hustle for me.

[00:06:42] I’ve made $10,000 in a year on Etsy, which is great on top of everything I do, but. It’s something that’s not gonna take up the mental bandwidth because before it was really like, okay, I have a day job, I have all this stuff going on, and I have to worry about shipping like three orders out and of six tattoos.

[00:06:57] Like it just, it wasn’t something that I wanna take on. So digital products so scalable, it’s been like wonderful ever since.

[00:07:04] Megan: I’m so curious when people tell me like they got started in like such a specific niche, I’m so curious, like what was the thought process? What was I guess the process of discovering this niche of like bachelorette party temporary tattoos and then scavenger

[00:07:22] hunts?

[00:07:23] Julie Berninger: I think today, now this was, is probably 60 years ago that when I got started here today, I would use keyword research and I would use free tools like Google Trends and I would figure out what the trends are. But then I didn’t necessarily know about all those tools, so I just did it based off of my life.

[00:07:38] And I look to see, okay, where’s a situation where I see people spending a lot of money on something that doesn’t cost that much to manufacture? And that was the only thing that clicked in my brain. And where do I see people spending a lot of money? In the orders because I also sold, uh, tattoos for individual people.

[00:07:57] Like for example, I had this one line of Wolf Pack tattoos and I was thinking of like the hangover, cuz that was really popular, the movie at the time. And I was like, oh, maybe you know, people going to bachelorette parties in Vegas will want something like that. But, It turns out that kids’ birthday parties for wolves were also really popular, but like people would, they wouldn’t buy that many, they’d buy like two tattoos.

[00:08:18] So that to me is not worth it having to go through the, the shipping and everything just to make like a couple bucks. Whereas in the bachelorette party space, people are buying 15. 20 of them at once and the average order size was really high. So that was something I was kind of, I was thinking through like average order size or is this something that I’m only gonna get a couple things, or am I gonna get like a big bulk order and it’s worth my time.

[00:08:40] But now I would use keyword research tools, but that’s kind of how my mind was processing it Then.

[00:08:44] Megan: Very cool. Um, would you mind, I guess, kind of take us through a little bit of the history of your business. So you started out with this, uh, selling temporary tattoos and then you moved on to selling, um, scavenger hunts for bachelorette parties.

[00:09:02] Where does your business go from there?

[00:09:04] Julie Berninger: So this arc of the business also was following a journey into financial independence. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the fire movement, financial independence retire early, but my husband and I were super into that. So we paid off like a hundred thousand dollars of debt.

[00:09:16] We were churn away, trying to save as much as we could start to invest, et cetera. So for us, these side hustles that we both did were like gravy. That allowed us to save even more on top of what we were doing in our day jobs. So we. Trying all the things, but Etsy I kept coming back to because it was just so much fun compared to the other side hustles that I was doing.

[00:09:37] I am a blogger. I’ve made money with blogging through display advertising and affiliate marketing, but it’s just not, it’s just not as fun as Etsy. I’ll just be honest. Etsy’s great. Right now, I’m. Shopping for presents for people on Etsy all the time, every month. I mean, I just really enjoy the brand and I think there’s great stuff on there.

[00:09:53] So for me, this type of side hustle in having it be passive is awesome. So I was doing that for a bunch of years and then, I also had started a podcast about financial independence, where I would interview people who had achieved this thing that I was trying to achieve. And I would interview people that happened to sell on Etsy because I was interested in that.

[00:10:13] And my audience was also interested because they were hearing every couple episodes I’d bring on an Etsy person and we’d get inspired. So I asked them at one point, would anyone be interested in starting this mastermind with me? I, I’m new to kind of doing this, but what if we joined it together? And for six weeks we’ll create our shops together and we’ll see where it goes.

[00:10:32] And I did that a couple times and then my shop even took off more when I was focusing on it every couple weeks. This was like six years ago now. But I had some success stories from students and I had sort of the proof of, Hey, PE people are also just as excited about this as I am. Everyone seems to think this side hustle is a hit for them.

[00:10:51] So from there I thought, why don’t I just turn this into a course? I was having my first daughter and I couldn’t run masterminds anymore. It would be too much, and I was getting really tired cuz I would run them at night, at the end of work and just being pregnant, I was like exhausted. I just needed to go to bed immediately.

[00:11:05] So I recorded videos of how I created. The principles in Canva, how I did the keyword research, how I listed them on Etsy and turned that into a series of videos that people could purchase for me. And then this side hustle became more scalable for me, I guess. So that morphed into Gold City Ventures, which I now have a business partner on, and, and that’s my main gig.

[00:11:24] I was able to leave my corporate job and just do that now.

[00:11:27] Megan: Wow, that’s amazing. And I love that you, I love that you started like a beginner’s mastermind. Would love to, you know, have something like that. It’s something I’ve thought about a lot, you know, throughout the years in my own business, because usually you see masterminds of like, you know, people who are already, they’ve already reached a certain level of their business.

[00:11:48] So I love that you found this group of people and you were like, Hey, we’re all getting started here. We don’t. Maybe necessarily know exactly what we’re doing, but let’s do it together. Um, how did, I guess, how did that work? I’m so curious what that looked like and how those ran and how you knew what to do together when you were all just getting started.

[00:12:08] Julie Berninger: Luckily, I had had my shop a little bit more and I had sold the tattoo so I could be a little bit of the ringleader, so it wasn’t completely like free for all. But the fun part about it is that every single person who joined, they. Their interest in other niches, like no one was interested in Bachelorette.

[00:12:26] I had someone that was more of a personal finance budgeting guy and he did his based on spreadsheets and he actually sold spreadsheets on Etsy and he had a lot of success there. I had someone else who was um, a mom of four and she was interested in creating quiet book patterns, so, I have kids now, so I know what they are, but at the time I was like, I have no idea what a quiet book is.

[00:12:46] And it’s something to occupy your children when you just need a couple minutes and has like a lot of different things that they can touch and play with. But she was creating patterns for people on Etsy. And then I had someone else, this was actually my co-host, she was selling cro, uh, no stained glass patterns.

[00:13:00] She makes these beautiful e. Wedding gifts for people like the Harry Potter keys and all these things. So she was selling the pattern behind some of those, not Harry Potter, obviously, because that’s trademarked. You can’t sell that on Etsy, but other types of things. Now, what we realized though, through all this, some things are just more popular than other things, stained glass patterns.

[00:13:19] She didn’t make nearly as much money as I did on bachelorette parties, and that’s probably obvious. It was really a good wake up call for all of us of like, Hey, if you wanna do this cuz you have something in your heart that you love doing, then you can, you can, and who cares whether you make 20 bucks a month or you know, $2,000 a month.

[00:13:36] But if you’re doing this because you’re trying to make money as a side hustle, you cannot skip the keyword research and making sure that you’re testing the market and doing all those sort of data-driven decision making things upfront, because otherwise it’s not gonna be as profitable as you kind of hoped it would be.

[00:13:51] Megan: Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense and uh, I would love to know more if you’re open to sharing this. Um, Definitely wanna get back and hear more about your story, but since you brought it up, would love to hear more about like, how do you figure out what you can sell on Etsy and what’s gonna be profitable?

[00:14:12] Um, are there any like niches, markets on Etsy that are oversaturated and that people should avoid? What are your thoughts there?

[00:14:20] Julie Berninger: I think the oversaturation fear is the number one mindset trap that any of us get into when we’re starting a new side hustle. I mean, I even thought it when I did the bachelorette stuff years ago, and I’m still selling to this day, some of the scavenger hunts I made back in 2017 when I was getting started doing all this, but.

[00:14:36] In terms of making sure that you are putting yourself in the possess best position to get return on your time. Think about a couple things and the benefit now. I was talking to you about back in the day when I got started doing this. Now I’ve seen myself heavy years of an ETSI shop as well as over 9,000.

[00:14:54] Students we’ve taken through our E principles course, so that’s quite a large sample set on beginners, making money and getting started. And the people that do make the most money, they are using tools like Google Trends to figure out what are people typing and searching for. I mean, that’s one of the easiest free tools you can use.

[00:15:11] Type in printable template. Digital, certain keywords and see what returns there. And then they’re also thinking about a seasonal product strategy. And that’s something that we really differentiate ourselves in our industry on, of helping people understand that Etsy is a huge marketplace. It has 97 million shoppers every year, and people think of shopping on Etsy to celebrate holiday’s, events, and special occasions.

[00:15:35] That’s just a fact of why people use that website. So if you can create printables for holidays, events, and special occasions, and you can create. Enough lead time that people are looking for those things. Sometimes you can do a last minute night of printable, like for example, Partner in all this, Cody, he created a letter from Santa and that sold Christmas morning up until like the final minute where parents were printing that thing out and giving it to their kids.

[00:16:02] That’s an example of a last minute printable that could do well. But for the most part, people are looking a couple weeks ahead of the actual holiday. So if you could get your, your shop stocked with those events in advance, you’re gonna put yourself in the best position to make sales.

[00:16:15] Megan: Hmm. Yeah. So are there any big holidays outside of, you know, like the winter holidays. We’re recording this in November right now, so we have Thanksgiving and Hanukkah, Christmas, all the December holidays, new Year’s coming up. Are there any other like holidays that maybe people wouldn’t think are. Big money makers, but can actually do really well.

[00:16:40] And I’m sure maybe it depends on the niche also, but

[00:16:43] Julie Berninger: Totally. We have seen people join the course from all over the world and sometimes they’ll tell me, oh, did you know that Father’s Day is in September in Australia? Or I, I think that’s what it is, but they’ll, they’ll tell you about what they’re celebrating, where they live, and there’s a market for that on Etsy.

[00:16:57] Now, not every country has a bunch of buyers on Etsy right now. Etsy’s been pushing hard to get new buyers internationally, but I think. UK, Australia and Canada seem to be where there are buyers beyond the us. So if you’re trying to think of international holidays, maybe focus on those countries right now.

[00:17:14] But we, we’ll see people make sales in the holidays that I didn’t even realize people were celebrating at a certain time.

[00:17:20] Megan: Yeah. What’s, uh, This is not entirely related to holiday stuff, but what, I’m curious, what’s like the oddest niche that you’ve seen somebody, maybe like somebody through your course create that you would not have thought would be successful but was?

[00:17:40] Julie Berninger: There are so many niches and whatever you do in your day job, someone might be shopping for a printable for that on Etsy, like for example, the doula. If you’re a doula, if anyone has gone through the childbirth situation, you might hire a doula. That’s a big niche for printables on Etsy. That’s so funny.

[00:17:55] They’re the witch niche. I don’t know if you are on TikTok. I’m not on TikTok. Yeah. But I’ve seen witch talk. Everyone thinks they’re witches now. Back when I was younger, it was a Harry Potter thing. Now it’s like literally a whole thing. Yeah. The witch industry has taken off on Etsy in terms of principles.

[00:18:11] So if, if you’re someone that’s into that or anything like astrology tarot, I’ve never. I will make products that I don’t myself use, but in that particular niche, I’m like, I don’t know if I know enough about what people want in this niche to make it. But if that’s you, you’ll find your people that are ready to buy stuff there.

[00:18:27] So I, I’ve seen all over crazy niches.

[00:18:30] Megan: Wow. Yeah. That’s so interesting. I, I am on witch talk, by the way. I do.

[00:18:35] Julie Berninger: Oh my gosh. So, you know exactly. I’m sure you’ve seen principles. I

[00:18:38] Megan: actually, I don’t think I’ve seen any on, like, on TikTok. I’m curious what, what do those printables look like?

[00:18:45] Julie Berninger: So what I have seen, I don’t know how the, these are use, but there’s a lot of people that do, um, Manifestation rituals or like witch spiritual rituals and they’ll get like a guided workbook for that.

[00:18:57] Um, there’s people that are like green witches, that’s certain subset of witches and they have different stuff than the people that are the regular witches. See, you should be telling me more about this, but that’s so cool. It’s a, it’s a whole thing and I keep seeing all these keywords and I look at shops that have done so well in this niche and I’m like, I don’t understand this, but it is blowing up.

[00:19:15] It is huge.

[00:19:16] Megan: That’s amazing. I feel like I need to go look into this a little bit when we get off here.

[00:19:22] Julie Berninger: Um, go check it out on Etsy. Just type in like, which, which printables and you’re gonna find there’s, there’s one shop, I think it’s the Almost Witch. She’s been like really crushing it and I’ve been following her for like, over a year now and looking at all this stuff and I’m like, wow, this is, this is so amazing.

[00:19:36] But for me at this point, I have my bachelorette party niche shop, but I, I like to just pass ideas onto the students and try to inspire them to come up with, you know, whatever the hot sellers would be. Yeah. Because that’s sort of my role now is like helping the students get success. So I, I love like, doing that research, but I don’t actually always make, I’ll find like a really hot niche, but I don’t make the products necessarily myself.

[00:19:57] I’ll like just tell everyone, Hey, this is a really good keyword. It’s going to apply to one of you. It’s not me, but it’s gonna apply to one of you.

[00:20:03] Megan: Yeah. Oh, that’s so funny. I never would’ve guessed. The witch niche would be so popular on Etsy. Yes. But that’s amazing because where else would you buy that?

[00:20:13] Julie Berninger: Right? Like some of it is if you’re looking for something customized, and I mean, you could go down a rabbit hole in this niche, like love potions are allowed on Etsy. Wow. And as long as you physically, as long as you physically deliver a product to somebody like. If the love potion had a, a digital component where you gave a printed version of someone, you can sell that on Etsy.

[00:20:33] So I have never explored these niches and someone, someone listening to this is gonna be like, I don’t believe in this at all, but I’m gonna make a love potion because I can make a lot of money here. I feel like there’s bad karma in this world. Like I wouldn’t get involved in any type of like spiritual things, right, that you feel like might come back to bite you.

[00:20:49] But for. Other people, where else would you get this? Except for something like Etsy, where you’ll get, you know, personalized, custom handcrafted things. So it, it just kind of aligns perfectly with some of these more, um, accessory niches, I would say.

[00:21:02] Megan: Yeah. That’s amazing. Are there any other, like, weird, not weird, but you know, like any other niches that have surprised you recently?

[00:21:13] Julie Berninger: I mean, I think just people, whatever you do in your day job, it is a niche. So people, let’s say that you are a occupational therapist that works with kids or even, um, right now, like health, health related things or mental health related things. So, A D H D is something that you might have heard people talk about in their circles, but if you have that or you have a child with that, where would you buy certain type of workbooks or daily schedules or planners?

[00:21:40] Those are really becoming really big right now, and there’s people that they help other people with that condition or with their kids with that condition. Um, Improve their daily life through printables and planners and organizers. So I’ve, I’ve seen that kind of, that like if you’re in the autism community, then you might find resources to help your kid and, and whether you’re, if that’s your day job or whether you’re just like a parent looking to help someone or you’re looking for yourself, those are niches that I see.

[00:22:07] Doing well that are related to like what people do in their day jobs, I guess.

[00:22:12] Megan: Yeah. You’re, I my mind is reeling right now with like my own personal ideas for things that I could create as you’re saying this cuz there are so many things like that I do in my business as an online business manager. You know, project management, uh, launching all kinds of stuff that I’m like, oh, I could create something here.

[00:22:31] So, Yeah, that’s, that’s great inspiration. I feel like I need a pen and a paper to write down all my ideas right now. I’m gonna go journal after we get off here.

[00:22:41] Julie Berninger: Um, okay. Buy the journal on Etsy cuz someone made that journal. Yeah.

[00:22:46] Megan: Um, very cool. So I wanna kind of jump back a little bit cause I know you mentioned earlier that you and your husband were doing, you were pursuing fire, you were paying off a lot of debt when you first started your Etsy shop.

[00:23:00] And you were doing other side hustles as well? Um. First of all, how quickly were you able to like build significant revenue with your Etsy shop and how much debt did it allow you to pay off?

[00:23:15] Julie Berninger: It took me a couple years to get to the $10,000, um, a year mark where I’ve kind of. Kept it at. And I think right now I couldn’t commit to more than that just because I’m also blogging and podcasting and I now, now, gold City Ventures is a massive business.

[00:23:29] Anyone who’s ever sort of undertaken this, it’s, it’s a lot sort of managing that. Um, but. I did do it with around four hours a week. Like every weekend I would go to a coffee shop, maybe like two hours Saturday, two hours Sunday, or four hours on Sunday or something, and I would just bang out printables and do the keyword research and get them listed.

[00:23:47] So that’s as much time as it takes. Now some of my students, they end up loving it. They wanna spend 15 to 20 hours a week, and I’ve had people like Rachel Jones, her website’s, money Hacking Mama. She’s made $150,000 a year. Selling principles on Etsy. After taking our course, there’s another wo woman, Sasha Hutchson.

[00:24:04] She has a six figure business where she quit her accounting job in the pandemic when everything was awful for everyone, and she traveled around the RV with her kids and she makes six figures now. She sells principles, she does some work. Helping us actually with our, with our students and what’s been cool.

[00:24:20] I’ve kind of retained a lot of my original students. Even Kevin Jones, the spreadsheet person I was saying in the original Mastermind. He’s still around coaching students. So that’s been kind of fun to build out this team of people that we just love helping new people succeed. But it took, it took a long time to to build that out and for my husband and.

[00:24:38] With having a hundred thousand dollars of debt that it probably took, it took 18 months kind of to pay that off. But we could, we sold some things. We downsized, we, we did other things to kind of chop that debt. It wasn’t just side hustling, but I also was bringing in like $30,000 on blog revenue and I had these other things that I was tying in.

[00:24:58] So my day job kind of went towards investing and. Our daily lives. And then anything extra that I brought in from the side hustles, we just used it to slash the student loans and then they were gone. And then we hit the next level of like, okay, well now we still have this side hustle revenue coming in.

[00:25:14] What do we do with it? And we’re learning. We learned about investing and that was a whole nother journey. Yeah.

[00:25:19] Megan: Very cool. Are you still on the fire journey today?

[00:25:22] Julie Berninger: No, I’m still, I still part of the community. I stopped podcasting in 2020 because, um, it was kind of crazy. I was supposed to come back from maternity leave and.

[00:25:32] Then that was March, 2020. So the world like went nuts and I just couldn’t do the podcast on top of a day job and, and this thing that was blossoming with Etsy and Gold City ventures and all that. But, um, I think what has changed in terms of my fire journey when you reach a point that you have saved over the, like a million dollar mark is sort of what the fire community wants.

[00:25:52] Or like what, what is the, the basic PHI goal for a lot of people, I’ve seen some people have different goals, but that that’s a kinda traditional goal and then you find something that you love to do. It becomes like, why, why? Why would I stop working? And I, and I’m just one of those people, I’m so passionate and even when we were just kind of playfully talking about the witch talk and stuff, this, I get paid to do this.

[00:26:14] This is what I do for my job. You know, how fun is this? So you kind of lose that desire to escape. When you just are excited about it. And I think for me, just having, I have one daughter and then I have another kid on the way, the time that I do get to spend in my business, I look forward to that. Whereas I used to, when I, you know, was working, I would kind of get the Sunday scaries and dread, but now I don’t have as much time.

[00:26:37] So now I’m like, I can’t wait till I can get on the computer and start working again. Not that I don’t love being with my family, but it’s just I don’t get as much time. So I really look forward to it and I think it’s creative and fun. So am I a fire person? I believe a basic level of financial security just in case.

[00:26:52] I mean, who knows? Well, what could happen. I always think of the doomsday scenario, but once you save up enough money, you could last enough time a couple years to figure out something else. And that’s kind of what my new, my new thing is and the new path for our family. Yeah, I like that.

[00:27:06] Megan: I’ve never, like, I’ve always admired the fire community and like people work so hard and it’s.

[00:27:16] People go hard in the fire community. Um, and I’ve always admired it, but I’ve also never pursued it myself. Um, cause I kind of feel the same way. Like, you know, my, my job, my work isn’t perfect, but I also enjoy it. And so, um, yeah. I’m glad you found that. I’m glad you were able to find that through your business.

[00:27:36] Um, so. You, when did you go full-time in, in your business? In Gold City Ventures. How long has that been?

[00:27:44] Julie Berninger: I made it until July, 2021. And then it became too much and that’s where the fire thing, what I’m saying, like reach that basic level. It’s the point where you don’t have to do the, the corporate grind anymore because, and having a young kid and right now illnesses, we, our daughter’s in preschool, she’s getting sick every week.

[00:28:03] If I had a traditional job, I don’t know how we’d fit in the doctor’s appointments and you know, we did sleepless nights and random stuff that’s sort of popping up. It’s a lot easier now. And my husband works from home too, and we, and he’s kind of pursued a more flexible job opportunity as well. So it, it just has made our life a little bit easier in this time.

[00:28:23] That’s very stressful for a lot of people. So there is that aspect to it, but we’re not like, oh, I, I wanna now supercharge it even more so that we never, ever have to do anything for money again. That’s not really our, our goal.

[00:28:35] Megan: Your story seems amazing and, uh, I love that you’ve tried so many things.

[00:28:40] You’ve done blogging, podcasting, um, you obviously Etsy. Are there any projects or even specific like Etsy products that you have tried in the past that you, that were not successful?

[00:28:59] Julie Berninger: Yes, and I have dabbled in all the things. I think and, and for some of this stuff, it could be that I just didn’t give it enough time.

[00:29:07] But I did try the print on demand for Etsy. And it’s funny, my husband and I, we kind of did it as like a competitive contest to see who could. Be more successful with this, cuz I wanted him to create a shop too. We don’t have time for these type of, you know, dates anymore where we’d do coffee shop dates, but at the time it was fun.

[00:29:23] But the print on demand, and if anyone doesn’t know what that is, it’s like you create an se shop and. You get the orders fulfilled with, whether it’s t-shirts or hats or mugs, you get them fulfilled by someone else. So you just make the designs. You set up the systems on these other third party websites, and when someone orders off of Etsy, it sends the details to the third party and they ship it to the person.

[00:29:45] But the issue with that is the margins are just so low. So my husband, he has like two products. He has. I think it’s a guitar like grandfather hat or something, and it sells every Christmas, and we’ve had so many issues with that where the hat, maybe he’s charging $25 on Etsy and then the actual third party is charging him $21 or whatever.

[00:30:08] So he gets the $4 in between. But if. You’re running ads or whatever reason you’re making like four bucks on the sale. Whereas let’s say that you sell a printable, and we talked about the witch planner. Let’s say that witch planners are going for $13 on Etsy. That didn’t cost you much to make except for your time.

[00:30:26] Maybe you bought some clip art that was fancy for like $3 or something like that, and then you can use it for all a thousand of the witch planners. It’s just, it’s just much more scalable, and then there’s no other systems really that have to be used because sometimes when someone buys those Christmas hats, The third party is getting so many orders that they can’t fulfill it in the timeframe that the customer wants, and, and we think we’ve all ordered from a website like Etsy and it’s taken a while and we’re like, Hey, when’s this thing coming?

[00:30:53] That is kind of a thing with print on demand. Now that being said, in my world, I talk to people that sell print on demand and they’ve done extremely well with it, similar to how we’ve done in our space. So I’m sure there’s people that have done well, but that’s just one example where for me, I never really got anywhere with it, and it just got a little frustrating.

[00:31:11] And I think like the business model, I’d rather just do a different business model.

[00:31:14] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. And speaking of, like, while we’re talking about numbers, um, would you mind to share, you said that you built your, oh, Craig, me if I’m wrong in any of this, but I think you said you built your Etsy shop up to $10,000 a year while you were working roughly four hours a week, um, mostly on the weekends, and that it’s, you know, you’ve sustained it at that level.

[00:31:38] What amount of that revenue from your Etsy shop is profit and what is typical profit for most Etsy shops? I guess if you have numbers for that,

[00:31:48] Julie Berninger: I don’t remember the exact number on that, but because I didn’t. As well in terms of like how much I spent on clip art and things. But I, I mean it’s, I would say 80, 90% profit, um, probably 90 in this industry.

[00:32:03] And you know, it could be less depending on if you are running ads and. A lot of newer people like to run ads, but they don’t have the rest of the shop set up quite right. So it ads are a very easy way to waste a lot of money at the beginning. It can once a year, products are looking good and they’re in demand, and you understand the keyword research in the seo then.

[00:32:23] By all means, run the ads and it’s gonna be worth it. But I worry when people turn the ads on too early, because now they’re, they’re usually only doing like a dollar, $2 a day, but that’s an extra like, you know, 50, $60 that you don’t need to spend every month until you’ve figured out the rest. And then what I recommend instead is get the shop going, get some organic sales, and then once you see, oh, people love this particular thing, then run the ad to that thing.

[00:32:45] But don’t do it from the beginning. But I just mentioned that because if you’re running ads, then you could actually cut into your. Revenue a little bit more. Um, Etsy also, you might hear people complain about Etsy that they have high transaction fees, but they totally don’t like, cuz I also, I did try to sell on Shopify and for Gold City Ventures, we have a Shopify store where we sell commercial use templates and that is a five figure additional revenue stream for our business.

[00:33:13] But we already have the whole system. We have an email list, we have a website that gets a lot of traffic. We have Facebook and social media and all that bringing leads. When I tried to do this years ago for myself, before I even had any type of community, there’s no traffic coming to that Shopify store and I had to build up all the traffic and it took a really long time just like it did with my blog, and you can totally do it.

[00:33:34] It’s just, it’s not like Etsy where you sell on Etsy and there’s 97 million buyers and they’re shopping every day and you just need to like cut in there and. Intercept some of that search traffic when you’re on your own trying to create your own shop or whatever you, you might need to pay for ads. So I’m mentioning this when you ask me about the profitability, because for most people this is gonna be a very profitable business.

[00:33:55] But there’s ways that you can make it not profitable if you air off and you try to do your own thing. Um, and don’t go the easiest route. And that makes sense.

[00:34:03] Megan: That makes total sense. You wanna make sure you have a successful product before. Put money into it. I’m sure people who are listening right now have heard me talk on other episodes about how, not, not like with an Etsy shop, but in other things in my business, I have fallen prey to that, uh, mistake of putting too much into something before it’s actually validated and selling.

[00:34:25] So, Words of wisdom. Um, so now that you have built out your business and you’re doing other things, you know, and you have your, your course and your programs and you’re helping, you know, your students build their own Etsy shops, how much time do you put into maintaining your shop? Are you still.

[00:34:44] Consistently publishing new products. Um, and I guess, is there ever a time when like you get to a certain point in your Etsy shop where you don’t need to be publishing new products? Or like, what is the upkeep once you’ve, you know, built something that’s bringing in money?

[00:35:02] Julie Berninger: So at the beginning it’s, I think it’s called the Pareto principle, where.

[00:35:05] Eight 80% of the outputs are from 20% of the inputs. That’s just the reality of almost any online business. So I say that because in the first year you’ll have to spend a lot more time because you’ll, you won’t understand what’s gonna be a hit on Etsy until you get a little more experience and. You’ll put up like 10 products and only two of those 10 will sell.

[00:35:24] And that’s just the way it kind of works. But for myself having a shop that’s five years plus old, I don’t have to do that anymore. And what I typically do is in Q1 I do my brush up and I re-put all my listings that I need, new listings, go through, see what is in selling for the old ones and what I wanna do with them, and then I can let it ride for the year.

[00:35:45] And I’ve had some crazy things the last couple of years. So last year we moved. 3000 miles across the country and I took six months, six months off from my se shop, but still was able to maintain that a thousand dollars plus per month just given the history of my shop, me understanding the keyword research.

[00:36:03] So I had, well the products that I put up had higher chances of selling, I think, than if you were just trying to DIY this on your own. Um, that there’s certain things that I do to make sure that I put myself in that position. And it’s just life. Like, for example, I couldn’t work, um, I’m pregnant now. I couldn’t work all.

[00:36:19] I couldn’t even use a phone. Like it made me so nauseous to do that, and I didn’t have touch my Etsy shop. It still kept selling. Every once in a while I get messages from customers, but that took five seconds and I would just try to batch ’em and do ’em all at once, so I wouldn’t throw up. It was, it, it was insane.

[00:36:33] But that’s what I kind of love about this and, and what I’m describing. I see that I’m mentioning we have the data set of all the students. People will take six months off and their shop still sells once they get, its selling in the first place. So you have to put the, there’s no. Easy shortcut. There’s no get to the end before you get to the beginning.

[00:36:51] You gotta just get through the beginning, and then once you do that, then it can become when, when people are saying quote unquote passive income, it’s the time they put in at the beginning. That’s what’s allowing them to step away and let it kind of ride with the sales.

[00:37:04] Megan: Thank you for sharing all of that.

[00:37:06] I would love to maybe get your thoughts or. For somebody out there right now who is jazzed about this conversation who’s like, oh my God, I need to start an Etsy shop. This is, that’s what I’m gonna do this weekend. What are the first few steps that somebody can take to set their shop up for success?

[00:37:31] Julie Berninger: Get familiar with canva.com, and that is, a lot of people probably know it.

[00:37:37] If you’re new to online business, you might not, but it’s a free online graphic design tool and that’s where 99% of us making printables, we make our stuff. And as I got more experienced, I started dabbling in the Adobe Suite and, and. More advanced kind of professional software. And there are some people that are really diehard about it and they’re like, oh, Canva’s not even close.

[00:37:57] And if you’re gonna be a principal seller, you should use the better tools. But the reality is it’s so easy to use Canva, it’s so fast. And unless you’re selling in the wedding space where you’re making this bride’s invitation and it’s gonna be in Boston Gold Foil, and she really cares about X, Y, and z.

[00:38:12] For the principles that we were just talking about in this episode. People don’t care. Like canva.com is gonna be en enough and they’re pumping out so many new features. It’s just amazing. So I would create that Canva account and start playing around with it, even just for your own, I mean, you can do fun stuff for yourself in Canva, for your own life, and you can get ideas.

[00:38:32] Um, I would do that and then, Obviously being a course owner, I’m all about courses, but like, just take some sort of paid training. Um, I spent so many years DIYing, and I mentioned the coffee shop dates, but my husband and I would sit in the coffee shop because we were trying to pay off debt and we would spend hours and hours just trying to piece together somebody else’s YouTube videos and they would tell me half of what I needed to know and then I’d listen to five podcasts and try to like piece it all together.

[00:38:58] And now being a mom and. Realizing the value of that, I would just get somebody step by. And that’s what I do now. So for example, how did I learn how to do my own, the Gold City Ventures business? I just paid other people that I know in this space to tell me what to do and they know what they’re doing and they wouldn’t have a successful business unless they had a track record of student testimonials.

[00:39:22] So I just do that now and, and I’m like, oh, they tell me to use this tool. Here’s why they said it. I’m not gonna spend a hundred hours trying to figure out what tool I should use because here’s somebody that is using this tool as success. That’s what I’m gonna do. So that, that’s me. Now, not everyone is in that place to invest, but my time is worth a lot of money.

[00:39:41] I’ve realized, and I’m not gonna like just waste it wa waste five hours of my time trying to save a hundred bucks. That’s just not me.

[00:39:48] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. I was just having a conversation with somebody yesterday and we were talking about like the different courses and coaching and like all the stuff we’ve bought in the years of.

[00:39:58] Being in business. And, uh, one thing we were both saying that we’ve learned is that it is so much better. Like there’s a time and a place for general business training, but if you know you wanna do something very specific, it’s so much better to like hire somebody, whether it’s a course or a coach or whatever, who has done exactly that and who can kind of show you like, The, the roadmap, you know, show you the shortcuts and, uh, yeah.

[00:40:27] I, I wholeheartedly, as a course and coaching person advocate, I wholeheartedly agree.

[00:40:34] Julie Berninger: And I had to let go of this because as a fire person, I didn’t wanna spend a dollar because that’s another year working and Oh my gosh. And in the community of the fire community, There’s a lot of pride in like even things like doing your taxes yourself.

[00:40:45] I mean, some of the other bloggers I was looking up to, they’re talking of all these complicated tax strategies and how they do it themselves and they do their own budgeting and bookkeeping and all this stuff. So I, that’s something I’ve had to, I don’t wanna say unlearn because. I, I’ve met a lot of them.

[00:40:59] I ended up going to conferences and networking and, and that’s a whole nother thing that’s helped me in my business. But, um, and I saw they were living the real life that they portrayed online, which was amazing, this fire life. But the act of like outsourcing actually is how people scale. So when, when everyone asks me like, oh, how do you, you know, you’re about to have two kids.

[00:41:18] You have all this going on, how do you do it? I outsourced literally everything. And the second that we started making more money, more stuff got outsourced. Now we have landscapers. We never did that. We have house cleaners. We never did that. A reality of how when you’re seeing people be really successful, um, that seem not like they’re losing their minds or like they have families or whatever, the reality is, they, they are investing back in themselves in their business and their life.

[00:41:43] That’s what I see. I’m sure there’s someone who’s some superhero in the situation I’m in that does it all themselves and bless them, but for me it’s just that’s not gonna happen.

[00:41:51] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. I didn’t even think about that in the fire movement, but you’re right. Like. Lot of DIYs over there and, uh, yeah. I’m also, I’m also an outsourcer.

[00:42:04] Like, I can’t be bothered to mow my yard right now, so, no.

[00:42:08] Julie Berninger: And like, I would even, I felt like with my husband, when he would go mow the lawn, I was like, oh, well that’s, you know, I, I don’t wanna say you’re getting a break, but it’s very difficult having a kid. And the last couple years with the pandemic, it’s been, you know, childcare shut down, like weird things happened.

[00:42:20] So I was thinking like this is a better family life for us. The more that we both outsource. This is more harmony. Absolutely.

[00:42:28] Megan: Um, well, I appreciate you coming on the show so much, Julie, this has been such a fun conversation. Um, I would love to ask you some rapid fire questions before we wrap up. Okay. Does that sound good?

Rapid Fire Questions

[00:42:39] Megan: Okay, awesome. Um, so first rapid fire question I have for you is what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments that you’ve ever made in your business? And it could be an investment of money, time. Any, anything.

[00:42:55] Julie Berninger: I hope this is a different answer, but when I started Gold City Ventures, I had a business partner and I still do, his name’s Cody Berman and he’s, he has his own podcast, the FI show, but he’s seven years younger than me and he is just a go-getter and just us together.

[00:43:10] Are like, we’re able to do so much more. We have a multimillion dollar business because there’s the two of us. If I had been trying to do this by myself during everything that I, I’ve sort of been through the last couple years, I just, I wouldn’t have got to the same place. And I don’t think enough people are willing to take the gamble to invest in other people in relationships.

[00:43:27] Most of my businesses, though, I did start with another person. Maybe not an Etsy shot, but something that’s a little bit larger, like a podcast or a blog or whatever. Um, if you can. Find the right person. You gotta be aligned. You have to think of it almost like a business partnership. I mean, like I mentioned, Cody and I we’re, we’re not even in the same demographic, but we, we have the same vision and the same drive and the same business acumen and desire.

[00:43:52] So that’s why we do well together. But I would say that’s the best investment I ever made.

[00:43:57] Megan: I would love to have a business partner sometimes. Sometimes it’s just nice to have other, other people there not be doing it alone.

[00:44:05] Julie Berninger: Yeah, it’s super fun. I mean, just have someone to like talk th things through with.

[00:44:09] Megan: Okay. Next question I have for you is, in the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life and or your business?

[00:44:18] Julie Berninger: The outsourcing. I just mention. It’s everything to me.

[00:44:22] Megan: Awesome. Um, okay, last question. What are any bad recommendations that you hear in your niche or your business area of expertise with

[00:44:32] starting an Etsy shop?

[00:44:34] Julie Berninger: In terms of bad recommendations? I think there’s a lot of. People that can start a Instagram or a TikTok and put out content. Um, but it’s very difficult to know whether this person knows what they’re talking about or not. And in the case of Etsy and the Etsy Seller Handbook, Etsy’s very particular about certain terms and conditions.

[00:44:55] Like for example, don’t use trademark. Thanks. Never, ever make a Disney product. And some of you may say, Well, I buy all these Disney products on Etsy. They’re short-lived. Like for example, last week I was trying to find, there was this Disney Christmas sweater, and I was so pumped about it. I’m like, I can’t wait to buy this thing.

[00:45:10] I, I started shopping for something else. 10 minutes later, the shop shut down. They’re kicked out, they’re gone. And sometimes, you know, influencers, I just gave one example, but they might not necessarily know all the rules regarding what fonts you can use, what clip art you can use. Um, so I like to learn from people that they have products and they.

[00:45:30] Students and testimonials and just that ru that proof that there’s success because anyone can kind of start a TikTok, um, nowadays. So that, that makes me nervous.

[00:45:40] Megan: Yeah. I didn’t even think about what are, what are some other, like maybe rules of selling on Netsy or some, just some general things that people should steer clear of.

[00:45:50] Julie Berninger: There’s a couple I can rapid fire. Now, depending on the mindset of the person, some people they get really this, this conversation makes them nervous and they don’t start because of it. But I promise you this is like anything in business, I feel nervous every day cuz I’m entering some new arena and I don’t, that I’m learning in my business.

[00:46:06] And it’s like the ability to push past that because what you want is. A greater desire than like how you’re feeling anxious about it. So I’ll, I’ll caveat with that, but some things kind of no-nos don’t have your friends and family buy the product. Um, there’s something called shilling their rule where if you incentivize someone to leave a good review, then you could get a warning from Etsy for that.

[00:46:29] So if your family buys, they’ll be like five stars. I absolutely loved it, but like maybe they didn’t even use it or whatever. Etsy doesn’t like that type of stuff. Um, For Canva. A lot of people I see like the influencers, I’ll see them tell people to start with Canva templates. Canva has hundreds of pre-made designs that you can use as a personal business owner or as, um, you know, in your day life.

[00:46:54] Like, let’s say that your kid is having a birthday party, you can type in, in into Canva birthday invitation, and you can get a pre-made one. You can’t just like take that, tweak it slightly and sell it as your own design on Etsy, when you’re using Canva, you gotta start from the beginning. You can look at it and say, Oh, okay.

[00:47:11] This is the size that they made it and then remake the same size or something. But like, you cannot start with the template. So that’s another thing that a lot of people don’t understand or they’ll use. Camba has free graphics and those are okay, but you cannot use the pro graphics, um, in your principles.

[00:47:27] So, you know, those are just some kind of common no-nos and like, I don’t want anyone to think they’re, you’re not gonna get sued. I mean, I’m not a lawyer, it’s just more, you, most people wanna always do the right things, so take the time to learn what the right things are. Yeah.

[00:47:41] Megan: Uh, that’s so funny. I wouldn’t have thought that about the, uh, pro graphics.

[00:47:44] I would’ve thought it would be the other way around that like, if you pay for it, You can use it for whatever.

[00:47:49] Julie Berninger: It’s because Canva is, I think, licensing them from other third party websites like Pxa Bay and other websites we’ve heard from. So they don’t have the agreement with Pxa Bay for somebody to use them.

[00:48:02] Commercially in a product that will be sold. Now if you wanna put them on your Instagram, who cares? That’s fine. And I use pro Graphics all the time and you know, stock photos and things like that. But on an actual printable that I’m uploading to Etsy and saying is my own, I’m not gonna use any pro elements.

[00:48:17] Megan: Ooh, well, thank you for those tips, because I definitely would’ve been somebody who would’ve broken several of those starting out. So really appreciate that.

[00:48:26] Julie Berninger: So that’s why what I’m saying, like don’t DIY it. It’s just because then someone gave you that whole list and how long would you have had to spend, or like you might do it wrong for six months and then well now you get a best seller and you gotta change out the clip art and it’s frustrating.

[00:48:40] Megan: Well, Julie, this has been great having you. Where can people find you and connect with you online?

[00:48:45] Julie Berninger: You can go to gold city ventures.com. We have a free workshop if you are like, Hey, I actually wanna learn more about selling principles on Etsy. I am on Instagram at Millennial Boss. I am not a social media person, so I’m not gonna be doing the dancing tos.

[00:49:00] I have a couple on there, and that was enough. Um, maybe, maybe in 2023 I’ll finally get more excited about doing that. But I’m all about like keyword research and the more passive ways of making money. Doing the TOS and the Instagrams are not me.

[00:49:16] Megan: Yeah, me either, but I think TikTok is like trending more towards talking, like talking head video or whatever.

[00:49:22] So I’ve been thinking about it more. I’m like, I’m I in TikTok, but also I hate social media, so. Don’t get your hopes up anybody.

[00:49:31] Julie Berninger: Th and this is where I would love to, like I mentioned the mastermind, if I had like a mastermind of people of, Hey, I already have a business, but I’m dabbling in TikTok, so we could try it, but I was, what I don’t like about it, I don’t wanna have to prepare.

[00:49:41] And I was even, you know, I, I don’t have time to like do my makeup or anything here. I was putting the fake eyelashes, the filters on my face. I looked ridiculous. Looked like I had two spiders on my. And I just was like, well, I don’t have time, so I’m just gonna like, just have this filter, put makeup on my face and I’m gonna do this thing.

[00:49:57] So, I don’t know, it just seems like a lot of work. Um, yeah. It’s not, it’s not necessary. It’s not necessary to like perform, to have a multimillion dollar business. You don’t need it. Yeah. But it could help, to your point, I mean, people are really doing so well on these platforms.

[00:50:09] Megan: Yeah. I love that you say that though, because not everybody’s a social media person and you don’t have to be on social media to make good money in a.

[00:50:20] Julie Berninger: No, and and that’s what I learned with the podcast because I had so many listeners and fans like this podcast had a couple million downloads. And I, I thought it was fantastic. I met people in person and I kinda made friends through it, but that wasn’t a multimillion dollar business. Now I have no podcasts at very little social media, and I have a multimillion dollar business, so I don’t want people to like conflate.

[00:50:40] If you have a lot of followers and a lot of people click things, that’s not the same as you have a revenue driving business. Mm-hmm. And sometimes optimizing for downloads and content and traffic, but not setting up the rest of it. That’s where you can just kind of tread water. Yeah. And then you’re not making money on the side hustle.

[00:50:57] Megan: Another mistake I made for so long in my business thinking that like I just needed a blog and like get people to my website and do Pinterest and stuff, all distractions because I wasn’t making money for like a year.

[00:51:09] Julie Berninger: So yeah, you’re like, well what, what product are you selling? I don’t have a product. Oh, okay.

[00:51:15] Problem. So how you make money? Yeah. Yeah. You have to make money to have a business. What?

[00:51:20] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here today,

[00:51:24] Julie.

[00:51:25] Julie Berninger: Thanks for having me.

Note: This transcript was automatically generated and may include typos.

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Dollar Sprout Podcast, where it’s all about building a business that offers consistent income and flexibility so you can live life on your terms. And now your host, Megan Robinson.

Introduction

[00:00:18] Megan: Welcome back to the Dollar Sprout podcast. Thanks so much for being here with me today. Our guest today is Whitney Hansen, who I’m super excited about.

[00:00:26] I’ve been following Whitney for a long time, or what feels like a long time. I guess it’s really been six or seven years. I don’t know. That feels like forever though. Um, but I started following Whitney back in her blogging days. She’s a financial coach and today focuses more on financial coaching. She used to do more blogging back in the day.

[00:00:45] That’s how I found her. Huge fan of Whitney. You don’t need to know all that, but there you go. I shared it. Anyway, , so I’m really excited for you to meet Whitney today and hear her story. She talks about how she decided to build a business that quote unquote doesn’t scale, um, and how she structures her work to only take coaching.

[00:01:08] A couple of days a week rather than, you know, sporadically every day of the week, which is a trap that some coaches fall into, especially in the beginning of their business. Whitney is just full of so much wisdom and in information about business. So, um, you’ll get to hear. , like I said, why she decided to switch from a more scalable business model.

[00:01:31] She started her business doing online courses, and then she moved to just doing one-on-one coaching, which is primarily what she does in her business now. Um, and a lot of the time you’ll see people go the opposite direction. They’ll start out with one-on-one services and then switch to something more scalable.

[00:01:50] An online course or a group coaching program, Whitney does the opposite, which I think is really cool. And it’s all about, you know, building a business that works for you and, and gives you the, the support and the lifestyle that you want. So be sure to listen in for that. Um, she also talks about how she realized it was time to stop blogging even though she was making passive income from it.

[00:02:13] How she gets clients now and how she got her first few clients in the earlier days of her business, and just so much more. There is so much value in listening to pretty much everything Whitney has to say. So also be sure to check out the show notes for links to all of Whitney’s, uh, information, her website and her podcast so that you can get in Whitney’s world.

[00:02:37] All right. Without further ado, please welcome Whitney Hansen.

Interview

[00:02:42] Whitney: Hey, Megan, I’m so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me. I’m really

[00:02:46] Megan: glad that you’re here on season two. Really excited to hear you share the story of your business. Um, so speaking of your business, would you mind to start out just by telling the audience, um, what exactly your business is and what products and services

[00:03:01] Whitney: you offer?

[00:03:03] Yeah, my business is a financial content creation business via podcasts and a financial coaching business for women that are single or feel as if they’re single in their relationships, helping them get their finances in order so that they can have a little bit more time freedom and enjoy their money.

[00:03:21] So that’s what I do today.

[00:03:23] Megan: Yeah, that’s awesome. Can you, I’m curious, since you just said that, what does, what do you mean by feel as if you’re single?

[00:03:31] Whitney: Yeah, this is so fascinating. It’s, it’s really heartbreaking, but I, what I find is a lot of people that reach out to me, and I think naturally my brand tends to attract more of a female audience.

[00:03:42] And so what I found is when I was getting on these calls with people and just chatting, you know, Hey, why’d you reach out to me? Like, why now? What’s going on in your life that, that you feel like you need some help? A lot of the people that were responding were saying that they are in a relationship, they’re married or they’re dating.

[00:03:59] But their partner is not on board with finances and they feel like they have to figure this stuff out on their own. And so that was like, as a business owner, that was kind of an aha moment where I started to realize that actually was a pattern of the people that were reaching out. So that’s what I mean by that.

[00:04:15] Would love to

[00:04:16] Megan: know kind of how you got started in financial coaching, because I don’t know, some people in the audience might know, but I did financial coaching for a while. Um, and for me, you know, I started out studying finance in college and I was like on the path to become a certified financial planner and realized that.

[00:04:36] Actually did not wanna do that at all. Um, and so left school did some soul searching, couple of years of floundering and then found financial coaching. Um, so that was my path. But what was your path? Did you also start out in like. the financial field or Yeah. What, what did that look like for

[00:04:55] Whitney: you? Yeah. I would say my entry path to personal finance was, my background was in accounting.

[00:05:02] That’s what I studied in college, and I thought for sure accounting was gonna be awesome. And then when I graduated college, I worked in public accounting for three years. No, actually two years. I only lasted two and I hated it. . I was like, this is not for me. It’s terrible. So I always had a financial background, but financial coaching didn’t come for me until I had graduated college had $30,000 of student debt.

[00:05:27] And had that kind of come to Jesus moment where I had to make a decision of do I pay the minimum payments and just accept, you know, the standard repayment plan of 10 years, have this debt for a little while, or do I buckle down and pay off the debt? . And so for me it was buckling down, paying off that debt.

[00:05:45] I paid it off in 10 months, which was crazy. So I was like a staff accountant. By day I was anell technician nights and weekends doing manicures and pedicures, and so it was two jobs, a lot of hours, but that’s where I started having people come to me for advice. They were like, Hey, you paid off all this debt.

[00:06:03] Can you help me? I don’t even know how to create a budget. And I was like, girl, I got you. Let’s do this. So we’d sit down and we’d create a budget and start to put together a plan. And so that’s kind of where the business idea came from, was people were just coming to me asking me constantly for help with money.

[00:06:19] Yeah.

[00:06:20] Megan: So I’m curious, when you were on your journey and you were like paying off your debt, um, were you sharing your story very publicly or how was it that people knew to come to you for

[00:06:31] Whitney: this? I don’t recall if, I think at that time that was 2010. So the, the most social media esque platform I would’ve been sharing on would’ve been Facebook, but it was mostly.

[00:06:45] Shoot, I think it was just friends and family. It was, people were asking me like, Hey, why, why are you going to work at this job too? What the heck? What’s going on here? Why are you always working? And then I would just start to, you know, tell them. And when I paid off some debt, like big chunks, I would chunk my student loan debt and I would get so excited and just kind of share like, Hey, I just paid off another $5,000 of student debt.

[00:07:07] And so I think in, in the salon environ. is where it was really catching on too, because there’s so much downtime that you just sit there and chit chat all day sometimes, especially in the slow season. And so I think that’s how it initially started catching steam. Um, yeah,

[00:07:21] Megan: I find that that’s, you know, how a lot of people get started, how a lot of financial coaches that I’ve spoken with got started too.

[00:07:28] You know, like just. , you have your own financial journey and you also had the background in accounting and finance. Um, and yeah, people come to you because it’s something that’s so needed. And even though, like, like I, when I first started doing financial coaching, I didn’t know it existed until I found it, you know?

[00:07:48] And I was like, oh, I don’t have to be a financial planner. I can do this. And that sounds way better to me. Like that sounds way more fun. Um, and now I’ve met so many coaches and there are like so many of ’em out there, but at the same time, there aren’t enough. There’s not enough. Um, so yeah, really excited.

[00:08:07] Share your business with the audience and anybody who might be interested in, in trying out financial coaching. Um, so I also think it’s funny you brought up that you were in accounting and you hated it. Um, I don’t know if we’ve talked about this before, but like I had a similar experience where I didn’t even make it to corporate accounting.

[00:08:28] I like did a summer internship in accounting cuz my major was accounting. Before I switched to finance, I did a summer internship and immediately was like, I. I am not cut out for this life , none of it. like, no. Yeah. Um, anyway, so, so you were paying off your debt as you were working in accounting and also working your nail tech job.

[00:08:54] At what point did you realize that you couldn’t just like, help friends and family, but like this was a viable option for a business? At what point did you even. Realize you could charge money for, you know, your financial coaching

[00:09:11] Whitney: services. That is such a good question. I don’t even think. Entrepreneur.

[00:09:17] I’ve always been entrepreneurial, but I’d never thought running my own business would be something I would do. It just to me, running your own business means that you’re broke. That’s what I used to believe, . So I was like, I do not wanna be broke. I want to make a lot of money. That’s why I went to college and that was a very broke mindset, but that was.

[00:09:33] The mindset I had, and so I didn’t think it would be a viable business. I went back to school for my masters and when I was in my m MBA program, that’s when I started to get exposed more to design thinking concepts and lean startup methodology and all of these things where I was like, this is very cool and very different.

[00:09:52] And so that. That style of thinking and training your brain to ask the right questions and have a hypothesis and test that hypothesis and get feedback was very interesting to me. So at the same time, I was being exposed to those concepts and having people ask for financial help. So that’s when I was like, shoot, maybe there is something here, like maybe I don’t have to be a C P A or A C F P to make money helping people.

[00:10:18] And at that time, the only. The only large example of people that were doing financial coaching was Dave Ramsey at that time. Like that was pretty much the, and Susie Orman, I should say. So there were like the two primary. Voices there that were not CFPs or CPAs that were helping people with money, but I didn’t think I wanted to be a radio personality or you know, like I, so there just wasn’t anything that I could comprehend.

[00:10:44] So it wasn’t until I started realizing that business comes in different styles and it’s not necessarily you have to do the path that. Dave Ramsey or Susie or Orman did, you could kind of create your own thing doing almost a consulting model. That’s when it started to become a little bit more of a reality that this could be a viable business.

[00:11:04] Megan: So you realized it could be a viable business, but what was the motivation in pursuing it and actually making

[00:11:09] Whitney: it one? Yeah, there was of course the demand of people constantly asking for help, but truly what has driven me to help people with money, specifically women, is that when. when I was a kid, so when I was growing up, my mom and dad were married for like 20 some years, like 27 or something crazy.

[00:11:29] And so she was a stay-at-home mom. There’s six kids in my family, and so like they were very much paycheck to paycheck. My dad ran his own business, but I wouldn’t say we were like living. A high upper class lifestyle by any means. And so I remember watching my mom, raising kids, and my parents’ relationship started to slowly disintegrate and it started to get really toxic and dangerous.

[00:11:53] And so at one point, my mom decided it was enough was enough. It was abusive, there was drugs involved. It was just a rough situation. So she said, I’m out of here. I’m taking the kids, and I’m, I’m gone. And so she moved up to Bo. Where I live now, and we were so broke, Megan, we were like sleeping on this little mattress on the floor of an apartment.

[00:12:14] Like it was just a rough situation. And I remember one day my mom and I were walking and we found a mattress in the garbage can and we were like so stoked. I couldn’t tell you how we got it back home, but we were like, yes. And so we took that home. And so at that time I was 16 years old and that’s when I would say I had that.

[00:12:33] Lesson of like, oh shoot, money matters. Like when you don’t have control of your finances, you might be stuck in a really crappy situation like this. And that has motivated me so much to just have that freedom to be able to leave really bad situations when you have money. And so that’s really what has pushed me to really help people.

[00:12:55] And so that’s kind of always been in the back of my mind and my whole. .

[00:12:59] Megan: Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that story. Um, yeah, I just, my heart goes out to 16 year old Whitney, you know, having had not the same but like, you know, similar stories around money, um, of like just seeing relationships go bad and seeing how much struggle and strife that it can cause.

[00:13:21] Um, yeah, it’s, it’s a real. Difficult thing in a lot of relationships. Um, so I am curious, so when you first started out, people were coming to you and they were helping you with, or you were helping them with, uh, like budgeting you said, and setting up debt payoff plans, I guess. Um, what was the first thing that you charged for?

[00:13:48] How long did you do it for free

[00:13:50] Whitney: before you

[00:13:51] Megan: started, you know, charging for anything?

[00:13:54] Whitney: It’s very funny because I did what most MBA students would do first, and that is do not work on anything that appears to be scalable or unscalable. Like all you’re doing is only the things that can go to the moon, right?

[00:14:09] That’s all we’re doing is just building up that, that scalable system. And so what I initially did is I initially, for the first maybe two years of my business, did not do one-on-one financial. because in my head I was telling myself, you are not gonna make money as a financial coach. You need to do courses, you need to do other pieces that are more scalable.

[00:14:32] And so I kind of steered away from financial coaching completely for the first two years and only did the method of running webinars, doing some paid traffic behind that, and then selling courses on my webinar. That was all that my business model was, and it was fine. It was good. But I still had so many people that were even going through courses that were like, Hey, I really like this stuff, but can you just like help me?

[00:14:56] Like I just want you to look at my budget and see if there’s anything that I’m missing. And I, for the longest time was like, Nope, not scalable, not gonna do it. Because that was my, my M B A brain talking. And once I started to say, you know what, maybe the way to build a good business that’s profitable and is enjoyable for me is to do what’s unsell.

[00:15:18] And so I started to focus on the one-on-one coaching, and I would say that’s where I started having a lot more fun in my business and making pretty good money and not having to constantly worry about, is this gonna grow to millions of dollars a year? It was more like, how do I get this to $2,000 per month and then how do I get this to five and then 10?

[00:15:40] And so it, it helps you really start to refocus and help people and change their lives through the one-on-one unscalable. .

[00:15:48] Megan: Yeah. That’s so interesting that you started out cuz like a lot of people that you know, I’ve talked with in service businesses, it’s the opposite. They start out doing like the one-on-one or like the whatever the hands-on delivery thing is, and then they like create a course or a, you know, a system or something.

[00:16:06] So it’s very interesting that, you know, because of your MBA experience and everything you. On the opposite end, you started with courses and then moved to coaching because you just enjoyed it more, it sounds like.

[00:16:18] Whitney: Yeah, pretty much. I think it’s the, the message of the business world. There’s a great book that I read that really resonated with me too.

[00:16:24] It’s called Company of One, and. It was such a good book because so often the message around business is you need to get this to grow as fast as possible so you can hire as many people as possible so you can serve as many customers as possible. And so it’s all of this like grow for the sake of growing.

[00:16:46] And while I do think businesses do need to grow, I mean I’m certainly not naive to that. You have to have some money in order to make a larger impact. I do realize that sometimes it’s that focus on doing what is unscalable that actually helps your business grow. And so that was, it took a long time to like almost reprogram my brain.

[00:17:03] And that book, I think does a really good job of helping you almost unlearn that and recognize that the business is the right size for you at whatever level you want it to be. And so I’ve really enjoyed that book. Yeah. And

[00:17:15] Megan: I feel that very deeply because like, I’ve never really been somebody who wanted to build an empire, but you know, I do want.

[00:17:23] A business that I don’t hate, that like feels enjoyable and can pay me full-time for maybe working slightly less than full-time would be great too, but totally. Yeah. Um, so I get that . So zooming out from your business, um, would you mind to kind of talk about what your business looks like today? So you started out with courses and.

[00:17:49] Products or whatever and then move to financial coaching. How much one-on-one coaching slash courses or other things are you doing today in your

[00:17:58] Whitney: business? Yeah, this is, you’re catching me at a pivotable moment in my business, so this is really interesting, , but I actually recently have retired. Pretty much every single course offering that I have except for become a Financial Coach course, which is a a course slash group coaching model.

[00:18:19] And so it’s kind of a hybrid that is the only course that I’m keeping. And so my two services now that I offer for the public are one-on-one coaching and they become a financial coach course. So that’s it. I used to have a lot of different moving parts and I would have all those courses, and what I found is, As a solopreneur mostly I was spreading myself way too thin by trying to promote all of these different courses and I had very like niche courses.

[00:18:49] One on specifically paying off debt, one on specifically budgeting, one that was a comprehensive financial course and it just, it was hard to get the marketing messaging very linear and laser focused and build out funnels that way when I was constantly feeling like I was being pulled in lots of different directions for courses that.

[00:19:08] between $49 and $149. So the, it just didn’t quite make sense and so that’s why that that shift in my business is currently

[00:19:17] Megan: happening. Okay, cool. So you said you currently offer one-on-one financial coaching and then your become a financial coach course. Mm-hmm. .

[00:19:27] Whitney: Yep. Those are the two offerings within the coaching side.

[00:19:30] And of course the podcast has affiliates and sponsorship income and, and other little avenues here and there, but those are the two core offers that I have.

[00:19:39] Megan: That’s awesome. How are you feeling about, um, simplifying, tearing some stuff down in your business and, you know, figuring out your new core offerings?

[00:19:49] Whitney: So, stressed out, man, , so it’s years of like, so being intermingled with like all of these email opt-ins and downloadables and like trying to go back through and making sure you don’t miss any pieces where people are trying to. By a course that doesn’t exist and getting an email, you know, two years down the road, which I fully expect will happen, but it’s.

[00:20:12] It’s very hard, and I think it’s, you probably relate to this too. When you’re entrepreneurial, you get so excited about all the different products and services that you can offer, and you’ll hear, you’ll go to a conference and somebody’s like, Hey, this is working great for me. So then you go back to home and you’re like, I gotta, I gotta do this.

[00:20:28] Too. I need to do eBooks now. Great. And so pretty soon you’re, you’re spread so thin and you’re pulling in all these different directions where if you have a laser focus of all of my energy and attention goes towards these two things, it’s so much easier mentally to beat that overwhelm.

[00:20:46] Megan: Yeah, absolutely relate to that.

[00:20:47] I have so many . I was just talking to my partner Joseph the other day. I can’t remember what got us on this subject, but we were like talking about all the things that I’ve done in my business and he was like, yeah, you’re really good at starting stuff. And I was like, Finish that sentence, Joseph, finish that sentence.

[00:21:07] Whitney: He’s just looking real comfy. Yeah. .

[00:21:10] Megan: Uh, but I know what he means. Like, and it, cause it’s so easy as a business owner, like you were saying, there’s so many different things that you can do. There are so many options for like, things that you can do, even just like, you know, your business. For example, financial coaching, like there are so many.

[00:21:30] Options for making revenue in your business. Totally. You know, like it’s, it can be overwhelming and Yeah. And I’ve found like a ton of those and I’ve started a ton of them. Can’t say that I’ve finished a whole lot.

[00:21:46] Whitney: that, that’s so funny you say that. I relate to that so much. That’s exactly the struggle.

[00:21:51] That I have two. Tony and I were saying something similar when I came across a gal that was doing a lemonade stand. I’m like, oh dude, I can do a lemonade stand too. I’m like, okay, I need to just put, put my head down and focus on a couple things. It’s really hard. It is so hard.

[00:22:07] Megan: It’s so hard. Is there anything that.

[00:22:12] Are there any projects that like you look back on that you started to do in your business and you didn’t finish that maybe stand out as something that you’re like, uh, I wish I’d done that, or any on the opposite end that you were like, I’m really glad that I did not follow

[00:22:30] Whitney: through on that. Yes. I would say the biggest one that comes to mind was initially when I started.

[00:22:39] My business, I was doing a YouTube channel and they’re still out there. Yes, they’re embarrassing, but hey, whatever. So I did a YouTube channel and I was doing blogging, and that was one where I would say I went down that path of trying to be a blogger and trying to force that so much, and you know, had enough traffic that I was in a good advertising network.

[00:23:03] But what I realized is like that didn’t. My business, like all, it gave good information, it brought people into my world, which is fantastic. But it didn’t really align with my direct business goals, which was how does this convert directly to one-on-one coaching and how does this directly encourage people to become a financial coach?

[00:23:22] Like it, it really didn’t support that. So that was one activity that I think I pushed up a hill maybe a little bit too long and kind of regret doing, um, one project that I’ve recently. Was considering, and it put it in the parking lot for now, was doing a financial like, um, like a diary. So this would be like a spending tracker and budget template using my, my systems in a physical form.

[00:23:50] And that was one that I was really quite passionate about and ultimately had to put on the parking lot in order to focus on my core offers again. So that was a recent one that kind of.

[00:24:01] Megan: Yeah. Yeah, I’m, I’m right there with you. I have like a whole notebook full of ideas that like, I’m not even doing financial coaching anymore.

[00:24:08] I started a completely different business, but I’m like keeping this notebook and I’m like, I don’t know. You know, maybe I’ll revive this one day. , it’s hard to like let go of your creative ideas, um, especially if you’re somebody like, I don’t know. Do you, do you just enjoy the process of creating.

[00:24:26] Whitney: I freaking love it.

[00:24:27] Like that is my favorite thing in the world, and that this is actually an interesting tip for people that are kind of like us. If you are going into financial coaching and you like to dabble and experiment and try different things, that’s not necessarily a bad thing. It just can’t take away from your core business offerings.

[00:24:46] So what I have done instead is I enjoy testing side hustles and trying to make. On the side, like I love it. I really do. And so what I have done is I actually have very strategically tested side hustles that I thought would be kind of fun and could easily, you know, turn into their own courses or eBooks.

[00:25:05] But what I’ve done is I’ve collected that information. So when I have a financial coaching client that says, Hey, I really just need to make this much money, we can kind. Explore, how much do you need to make? What are you interested in? Oh, here, I’ve tested this side hustle. Here’s how you can make it work.

[00:25:22] And so I found a way to kind of help support the educational side of my coaching by letting myself dabble and try other side hustles

[00:25:29] too,

[00:25:30] Megan: which is, yeah, I mean that sounds like a great solution because it’s being productive on both ends. On the one end, it’s like allowing you to do different things.

[00:25:39] Cause it can. . Yeah. If, if you’re like me in that way, it can be so hard to stick to one thing. Um, and then, yeah, it gives you information for your coaching business. Are there any side hustles that you’ve tried that really stand out as your favorites that you would recommend to anybody listening? ?

[00:25:56] Whitney: Yes. I think it depends on how desperately you need cash.

[00:26:01] Yeah. That’s the, the barometer that I use. So if you need cash immediately, I like the on demand delivery side hustles like Instacart, like Amazon Flex. I think Amazon Flex is one of. the best. There’s usually a very long wait list to get onto that program, but if you need cash very quickly and you have your own, you know, flexible schedule, I think that’s a really, really good one.

[00:26:26] Instacart is great. It’s all about efficiency. DoorDash, Uber Eats, I’ve tested, they’re okay. Um, those ones I think are fine. I love freelance writing. If you have some competency. Deeper skill or the ability to research and, and communicate very clearly. I love that as a side hustle for a lot of people, those are, if you need immediate income, if you’re thinking a little bit more long term, I.

[00:26:50] I love real estate investing. I have to be honest, like I think if you have the cash and you have the creativity, there’s so much you could do there to really change your life. Whether that is house hacking or doing cool Airbnbs, or even long-term rentals or midterm rentals. I’m very passionate about that, but that is more of a, a long-term game.

[00:27:10] Yeah.

[00:27:11] Megan: I have been following you on Instagram since like the beginning of your, I think, what was the beginning of like your, uh, Airbnb journey because you just, Like you’re officially launching, I think, what’s your first Airbnb, right? Cascade

[00:27:25] Whitney: Dome. Yep. The, the Geo Dome in the mountains. It’s been fun. And I, Megan, I totally spaced on mentioning furniture flipping.

[00:27:34] That is probably Oh, right, right. My go to side hustle for quick cash where you just buy pieces of furniture from a thrift store or. I don’t know, on Facebook marketplace or look around your, your parents’ house and you resell it. So sometimes you fix it up, sometimes you don’t. But that is a very profitable kind of fun one.

[00:27:54] But you do need to have a little bit of space to store some furniture.

[00:27:58] Megan: Yeah, we, uh, just had Robin Melissa from, uh, flea market flippers on the podcast too, so yeah, it was so, so fun and so excited to talk about them. They do wild flips. That’s crazy. Stuff that Ive never even heard about.

[00:28:12] Whitney: Prosthetic legs, like, yeah.

[00:28:15] Commercial, crazy kitchen, all.

[00:28:17] Megan: Yeah. Um, that is a, that’s a really good one. I’m glad you threw that one in there. Yeah. So Cascade Dome, I do wanna, I know this is like off topic, but I also haven’t had a chance to ask you about this yet. So you just like recently won. An Airbnb contest, right, to create an another unique rental.

[00:28:35] Whitney: Can you tell me about that? Oh my gosh, this was crazy. So Airbnb was having a global competition or fund, I shouldn’t really call it a competition, but the whole premise of that is you submit a crazy idea. It has to be pretty wild off the beaten path that would fit for their, their O M G category, which is all the architectural anomalies and just kind of these weird properties.

[00:28:59] And so I submitted an application for that, not really thinking it would go anywhere and it. Progressed into different levels and then pretty soon I got an email saying, Hey, you are a finalist, which is basically a hundred thousand dollars before taxes that will go towards building a giant flower pot in Idaho.

[00:29:20] is what I submitted. . So that is so cool. It’s crazy, but, so this is all of my next year. Which as a business owner and as a financial coach is very interesting because we, we like to do the build or at least a big portion of it. And so setting up my business now where I can increase my financial coaching prices to reduce the amount of clients that I have, but still make money and still pay my own bills, is really, it’s cool that you can do that.

[00:29:48] As a business owner, you

[00:29:49] Megan: mentioned increasing your prices and having fewer clients, um, and. Somebody who’s like has my own business. I’m curious how much time you spend in your financial coaching business right now. Um, cuz it sounds like. You have time to pursue other things. So what does that look like?

[00:30:11] Like what does a typical workday or work week look like for you in

[00:30:14] Whitney: your business? What I find is with my schedule, I will do calls Monday through Wednesday, and these are all of my meetings. This is all of the podcast interviews, this is all the coaching calls. And so typically what that looks like is. I will start my coaching calls around 11 or 12 Mountain time on Mondays and Tuesdays, and they will generally go kind of sporadically throughout the day till about eight to 8:30 PM and so that’s Mondays and Tuesdays, so it’s a little bit more.

[00:30:43] Back to back a little bit more stressful, like hopping in and outta calls pretty much all day long. Wednesdays I will do a mix of podcast interviews and calls, so that’s the time where I’ll have conversations like these. I’ll bring people onto the Money Nerds podcast and we’ll start to have. That all on Wednesdays.

[00:31:02] And so that’s how I have structured it. And the cool thing is, as a financial coach, you get to set how many people you work with. So my coaching package is three months and I work with people every single week in some capacity. And so most of the time it’s just quick check-in calls to make sure they’re sticking to their plan.

[00:31:20] We’re troubleshooting that kind of stuff. So it’s not a ton. Time all the time. It’s just occasionally you’ll have like your hour long masterminds. And so those are my, my more work days. Uh, Thursday I tend to do a little bit more content creation or just catching up on email, that kind of stuff. And Fridays I try to do half day Fridays or take the full day off depending on how the schedule looks.

[00:31:45] So I would say as a whole, I probably work about 30 to 35 hours a week. And of course, sometimes. Extra work weeks where you have to really grind out on something. But for the most part, that’s what I aim for. Thank you for

[00:31:59] Megan: sharing that. I think it, it’s been interesting to hear people talk about how they manage their time, like doing these calls with people.

[00:32:06] Um, and I think batching is like, The secret of success, . But was that hard for you as like, um, as a financial coach, as somebody with a service business? Was it hard for you to kind of say to people like, these are when, these are the hours I’m gonna work and these are the hours you can schedule your call rather than just letting people have free reign over your calendar nine to five, Monday through Friday.

[00:32:34] Whitney: Yeah, I’d say it, it was a little, it was a little hard in the beginning because I, I kind of had this feeling that if I wasn’t available for sales calls all the time, anytime I’m gonna miss those sales. And that was a little bit scary. And I would say there probably is some truth to that. The longer people think about a decision, the longer they, or the more they will talk themselves out of it.

[00:32:58] And so I do think there is an element of truth there, but you have to balance that with. The types of clients that you’re serving, and do they need you to really be on demand all the time? Like, that’s kind of exhausting. You’re, you’re just a human. And so it was really hard, but my moment of switching things up where I said, okay, no more is, I was on a road trip with my mom and we had to pull over at rest stops, like every few hours.

[00:33:24] So I could take coaching calls and that’s when I’m like, this is ridiculous. Like this does not have to be that. And so that’s when I shifted everything and I thought for sure I’d get so much negative feedback, but it was more in my head. My coaching clients saw the schedule they scheduled. That was it.

[00:33:41] But it was more like, I guess like exaggerated in my head of how bad it was gonna be. Yeah.

[00:33:46] Megan: Well, I’m glad you were able to do it and I think it’s, it is interesting like just sometimes in your own business it can feel. , I’m not allowed to do that. Or like you said, I’m gonna miss out on clients with those sales calls or whatever.

[00:34:02] But like so many professional businesses out there have normal operating hours like , you

[00:34:09] Whitney: can have set operating hours that you

[00:34:13] Megan: want that work for you. Um, so I’m curious though, how. , your time management, I guess, has changed over times from like when you first started your business until now, and I know when you first started your business you said you were doing courses.

[00:34:31] Um, yeah. How was it, I guess, what was it like managing your time and how much did you work in your business when you first got started? Um, I forget if you mentioned if you were, like, when you started your business, if you were also working other jobs or something. What was that like in

[00:34:47] Whitney: the. . Yeah, so I actually did not quit my job until about.

[00:34:53] I think it was like three and a half years into my business, so it took a little bit longer, and so I was still working my normal nine to five job, and then every single free minute, every lunch call, everything was dedicated to my business. And it wasn’t like, yeah, people would look at that and say, that is no.

[00:35:13] Balance for your life. But I was having so much fun that I really didn’t care. Like I really did enjoy it. And so what I have found is I probably worked about the same amount on my business then as I do now. But then, I don’t know what it was. I think it’s when you don’t have as much time, you’re so much more effective and you’re so much more productive.

[00:35:35] And so I look at those early days of my business, I’m like, damn. I was like getting stuff done. I was hustling. I was like producing. And there’s times today where I’m like, oh, I got my five themes for today. Done. Go me. You know, , it’s just so different. Yeah. And I don’t know, so I, I think that a lot of people feel like they have to go all in on their.

[00:35:56] And quit their job and just like focus all of their energy on there. And what I find is most people are actually very productive and very profitable growing a business in tangent with their nine to five job. And it, it works really, really well. Like I think it’s a really important thing to know as you don’t have to go quit your job and go all in on your financial coaching business.

[00:36:18] You can build it up slowly and you’ll still get great results. Yeah.

[00:36:22] Megan: It’s so funny you mentioned that. I’m the same way, like I am the most productive and most effective when I. Way too many things going on , you know? Um, but I’m like such a freaking sloth whenever I just have one thing, one project, or like one job or whatever it is that I’m focusing on.

[00:36:42] No, I need to have like way too many things. The anxiety and the pressure needs to be very high. And then I am like on it. But yeah, I, I’m not saying I love that about myself, .

[00:36:55] Whitney: I feel that, but it’s also how I operate. Yeah. . Yeah. Um, well, and I think so much of that is self-awareness and not trying to force yourself to.

[00:37:03] Perform in what we deem as a successful way. I think it’s like finding your path, your style, what works for you. And if you tend to be the person that crams before the test, like, cool, if that works for you, great. Like, we don’t always have to change everything about our natural instincts. I think we, we do that a lot.

[00:37:22] Megan: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And yeah, so much of the last few years in figuring out my own business has been like figuring out the self-awareness portion and what, like what actually does work for me in terms of time management and the what I wanna do and how to structure my offerings and all of that. Um, I’m very curious if you have a take on.

[00:37:48] um, I was gonna say hustle culture. That’s a huge question though, but like hustle cul, you know, there is like the culture out there of like, um, just work, work, work, grind all the time. You know, if you should be working day and night, especially if you’re building a business or if you’re a business owner.

[00:38:04] And I know like a lot of the times I personally. Feel like if I’m not working on my business, I’m wasting my time. If I’m like reading a book fiction or nonfiction, whatever it is, in the back of my mind, I’m thinking like all of the things that I need to be doing in my business. So I’m just curious, um, what your take is on the idea of hustle culture, how much you should be putting into your business when you are just getting started.

[00:38:31] Yeah. And how you’ve maybe kind of let go of the idea if you ever had the, the idea or the feeling of. You had to hustle all the time. How you’ve shifted that to have more time outside of your business. It’s a lot of questions.

[00:38:45] Whitney: It’s such a good question though. I think it’s something we all struggle with and kind of go in and out of, of like, should I be like focused and only doing, you know, not coming outta my office except for dinner and then coming back and drinking more coffee and work until 2:00 AM Like we, I think we all kind of feel that way sometimes.

[00:39:01] And so it’s that, that message is very strong. What I, what I, my take is, In our lives, we are living by seasons, and so when you are getting a business off the ground, No doubt about it. I do not know a single person that didn’t have to put in more hours, sacrifice some time with family or friends or themselves.

[00:39:26] I have not met a single person that has been able to do that effectively. Maybe they’re out there, I just haven’t came across them. . And so what that tells me is when you’re first growing a business, there’s an element of you do need to put in more time and energy to get something off the ground. It’s, you don’t have that momentum yet.

[00:39:43] You’re pushing that rock up the hill, but it’s not quite self-sufficient. You’re not at the top of the hill yet, so it’s not rolling down. You have to like really heave and hoe to get that up. And so I find that when you’re starting something new, it does require a lot more hustle Once it’s going, I think you can start to slowly.

[00:40:02] Not put as much energy and effort into that because now you have that momentum. And so I think that that tends to be, the question I ask myself is what season of my life am I in right now? Am I in a season where it does require me to hustle and to put my head down and work extra hours? Cool. That’s what I have to do.

[00:40:20] Am I in a season where everything’s going pretty good and I don’t need to like force and work even more? Great. That’s fantastic. And so I think you have to really understand where you are in your business to see what is the requirement for workload. And that is one of those things too, where when you first get started in your business, you are so excited and it’s so fun and new that you will work more hours naturally because you enjoy it.

[00:40:46] I think the issue is when you’re working more hours into a business that you absolutely hate, Then it really is detrimental to your health. You don’t enjoy it. You’re having a crap time. You’re grouchy all the time. Your relationships are gonna suffer. Your health is gonna suffer and you’re gonna be miserable.

[00:41:01] But if you love what you do and you’re really excited about that process, you actually feel more energized by that. It doesn’t feel so draining. And so I don’t know if that’s just me, but that’s just what I’ve noticed in my own life. .

[00:41:13] Megan: Yeah, I think that’s, that’s very true. And I like what you said about being in seasons because it is so much work building a business in the beginning, like, yeah, I don’t know.

[00:41:25] I guess there are some cases out there or seemingly some cases where it like goes from zero to 1,000,006 months or whatever, but like. I don’t think that’s, yeah, that’s not the case for most people. And even if it is like the 12 months leading up to that was probably a lot of work. So, um, . Yeah. Anyway, I, I just like what you said about seasons and like you do have seasons where you’re busier, but like you can also have seasons where you rest more

[00:41:57] Whitney: and we should, right.

[00:41:58] Like, that’s the important thing. What I find helps with that too, is when I started to beat myself up and just be like, oh my gosh, you should be working on this. It’s, you know, 8:00 PM and you didn’t send out that email. What’s wrong with you? What I found is when. Really was very diligent about time blocking and scheduling my calendar almost very, um, maybe too much a little o c d sometimes, like from an outside perspective, it would look like, that’s crazy.

[00:42:30] Why are you doing that? But like down to like every 15 minute, 30 minute increment, what I found is that feeling of like, I didn’t do enough, kind of started to diss. Because I started to actually get a lot of stuff done throughout the day and start being a lot more productive. So that feeling of guilt wasn’t there as much.

[00:42:49] It was those days where I didn’t have a plan for my day. Maybe I had like a few things written down, but then I was scrolling through a TikTok or Instagram for God knows too long and that those were the days where I started to really feel like I should be working more is when I was noticing I was doing more of that.

[00:43:05] So I found a direct correlation with my screen time and that.

[00:43:09] Megan: Yeah, I have, I found the same thing. And also like I’m a notorious list keeper. Like I just love having pen and paper, a list of like every, everything I need to do. Um, like even if I’m working with a client, I’m using a project management tool, I’m in a sauna or whatever, I’m still gonna have my pen and paper list, you know?

[00:43:31] but I feel so, yeah, I agree. I feel so much better about that list and what I’m able to mark off of it at the end of the day when I’ve like put my items in specific time blocks on my calendar. . I don’t know how the magic of time blocking works. I don’t understand the science of it, but also way more productive when I do that versus when I’m like, I swear to God, I can have the same item on my pen and paper list and it takes me half the time to do it if I put it on my calendar.

[00:44:04] I

[00:44:04] Whitney: don’t know. I’m just saying works. I think you’re onto something, pal. Like this is a legit thing. .

[00:44:11] Megan: Yeah. Yeah. It’s crazy. I wanna go back and ask you a question that I think I meant to ask you earlier, and I totally forgot . Um, but I wanna back up and talk about how you’ve gotten clients for your business, um, because, well, in the beginning, let’s start there.

[00:44:29] In the beginning, you started out with courses and you said you were doing workshops, and then on the back end of the workshops you were like selling courses. How did you start that? Where were those people coming from? . And did you, like, did you have to learn a new skill to do that ?

[00:44:47] Whitney: All the time. I feel like I’m always learning new skills.

[00:44:49] Yeah. Um, okay. So what I initially was doing is, I think this is normal for most consulting or coaching businesses. Your first clients are going to be friends, family, people that know your friends and family. It’s gonna be that referral and to an extent that still is most consulting businesses. But I’d say that is your primary source of leads when you first get started.

[00:45:12] So what you have to do as soon as you possibly can with any type of business, but specifically coaching, is you have to understand your customer avatar. So then you can start to craft messages and marketing materials and. Talks or reels or whatever the heck, even a post on LinkedIn, when you have that avatar in mind, it starts to become more of that attraction.

[00:45:35] Instead of that, like, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re a little bit more pulled than push when it comes to your marketing efforts. And so that’s the key piece to any business, but specifically there. And then what you notice is the more that you. and usually when you first start, you don’t have a ton of testimonials.

[00:45:51] You are your testimonial. Like that usually is the case. So the soonest that you can get testimonials and feedback from other people and start to put those out into the world, then the more people are gonna start to say, oh, this is interesting. And so what I think is the primary lead generator for my business now is podcast first, followed by my email list that has.

[00:46:18] we’re sitting at about, I just cleaned it up, so we’re actually at about 7,000 people on the email list. Like a lot of people are like, oh, your email list has to be massive. It doesn’t actually, it truly doesn’t. When you’re talking to the right people, you can still build a very successful business with a smaller email list, size two.

[00:46:33] And so we, we are constantly promoting we meaning me, I’m constantly promot. Emails that will like pitch coaching and say, you know, hey, if you need to, I’ve got this many spots available for the next month. And so it’s all of those efforts combined with your marketing materials and being very strategic about the content you put out there that will start to attract people.

[00:46:54] But in the early days, it was a hundred percent friends and

[00:46:57] Megan: family. Awesome. Yeah, I think you’re totally right. Like. friends and family and cold outreach or just like referrals in general is how so many service businesses start. I’m like in the midst right now of doing cold pitches and, you know, looking at partnerships and stuff.

[00:47:15] It’s the worst

[00:47:17] Whitney: Anyways, so discouraging ,

[00:47:19] Megan: so, so discouraging, so necessary. Sometimes, but it is, I didn’t realize, uh, how late it has gotten, cuz I’ve just enjoyed talking to you so much. Um, but I would love to ask you some rapid fire questions before I let you go. Is that all right?

[00:47:35] Whitney: Let’s do it. I’m excited.

Rapid Fire Questions

[00:47:37] Whitney: First question

[00:47:39] Megan: I have for you is, what is one of the best or most worthwhile investments you’ve ever made in your business? And it could be an investment of money or time, or energy, any of those things or any other resource.

[00:47:51] Whitney: Ooh. It was an investment of time in joining a business incubator at Boise State called Venture College.

[00:48:00] It was a semester program, no credit, uh, just for fun, where you are very diligently working on your business, and that was the hardest I’ve ever worked, but the most fulfilling and most growth I think I’ve ever had. That’s by far the best investment I’ve had so far.

[00:48:18] Megan: Very cool. . Yeah, that sounds awesome. Um, okay, second rapid fire question is, in the last five years, what new belief, behavior, or habit has most improved your life and or business?

[00:48:33] I don’t know if you can hear. My dog is like dreaming behind me right now. It’s like, like yelping and is asleep. Okay. Okay. Calm down buddy. . Sorry.

[00:48:43] Whitney: That’s so cute. . Lemme think. I would say the, the biggest mindset shift that I’ve had is it’s not about how good your product or services is. It’s about how well you market the product or service.

[00:49:00] Mm-hmm. As much as I hate that, that is by far the biggest thing that I’ve had to wrap my head around, over and over again, but especially so in this past year, you can have a great product and service, but if you can’t market it, You were gonna be broke, you’re not gonna have a good business. And so that is by far the the biggest mindset shift I’ve been having lately.

[00:49:22] Megan: Hmm. Is there any product or service that, like you’re thinking of in your business that you created and you thought was amazing but like, didn’t get the traction or the attention you thought it should because it just marketing ?

[00:49:36] Whitney: Totally. I would say the, the course that I just retired manager money, like a.

[00:49:42] Mm, man. I thought that was the best course ever. , it’s a good course, but I did not market it to the degree that it should have been. And so it, it wasn’t a flop, but it wasn’t by any means, like, I mean, it would buy hundreds of dollars worth of stuff, but not a house like it. It just wasn’t the same level. So that was definitely one that I, in hindsight, could have done a much better job marketing.

[00:50:06] Megan: Yeah, it’s so true. It is. . Very hard to come to terms with that mindset, but it is so true. Marketing is like if you don’t have marketing, you don’t have sales, so you don’t , you don’t kinda important . Yeah. Um, okay. Last question I have for you is, what advice do you have for someone who’s just getting started or maybe toying with the idea of starting an online business or a lifestyle business

[00:50:35] Whitney: that sort of.

[00:50:37] Find a mentor. I think that’s the biggest piece that you can do, and that can be a virtual mentor or it can be an in-person mentor, ven virtual meaning podcasts, or maybe you’re reading their blogs or their YouTube channels. But what I suggest for anybody that’s interested in an online business of any type or any business, find a single mentor and follow their blueprint and their.

[00:50:59] To a t. Mm-hmm. Don’t intermingle other people’s advice. Just learn from one mentor at a time, and I think that’s where you find a lot more progress, a little bit more quickly.

[00:51:09] Megan: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I, I totally agree. And I also have a question for you around like, looking for a mentor. So Yeah. Have you found. do you, do you look for a mentor who’s doing something very specific that you know you want to do and has like that exact blueprint versus like, they’re also business coaches who are kind of more general, you know, who just like will meet with you every week and talk about whatever you’re working on and give you general advice?

[00:51:37] Ha, I what level or. , what kind of mentor do you prefer there?

[00:51:42] Whitney: I prefer very laser specific mentorship, so I’ll have different mentors for different elements. Like I have, one of my best friends is a rockstar at Airbnbs that are in the unique space, so she’s my mentor for that. I only follow her advice when it comes to Airbnbs.

[00:51:58] There’s lots of great advice out there, but that’s the only one I follow for financial coaching. I don’t really have a mentor. anymore in that space. But I would say when I was first getting started, I couldn’t find a financial coach mentor. So I would look at consulting models and really track that, kind of, that level.

[00:52:16] So I had a, a college professor that was a consultant, and I would meet with them and just ask them questions of like, Hey, well how do you get clients? How do you charge to make sure that you’re not underpaying yourself? And so those were the initial mentors as just like very topical, very specific. Um, I think once.

[00:52:34] you get to a certain level. Masterminds are really great for that diversity that you’re seeking. But in the beginning, yeah, laser topical specific I think is

[00:52:43] Megan: best. Yeah. Very cool. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, Whitney, and for hanging out with me today. Um, before you leave, where can our listeners find you and connect with?

[00:52:57] Whitney: Yeah, the best places to go. Hop over to the Money Nerds podcast. You can find out on any podcast player and there you can get some more financial advice to and fun conversations can go hop over there and listen to some cool stories.